SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

Will it be argued that ‘living in the acquired gender’ means accessing single sex spaces? After all how can you live as a women without using women’s spaces? The GRA needs abolished not filled with exemptions. It is a lie. The whole concept of ‘gender’ needs abolishing. If we recognise and separate out sex what is left to ‘protect’ or ‘recognise’ apart from a wish to present oneself in a certain way? Why does the wish to present according to opposite sex stereotypes need more protection than a wish to present as goths or punks or other ‘rebellious’ presentations of the past? Or even as a Rangers fan?

And if they can define for legal purposes 'living in an acquired gender' how will that work?

Will women (born female) have to follow this law? If not, why not? And surely, if women (born female) don't have to follow this law, then we'll back where we are now with women (born male) complaining they are being treated differently, are not validated, are oppressed, have to conform, blah blah blah ad infinitum.

This is one of the things I was pondering. The only way it works is if all men and women have to follow strict gender laws - skirts and nail polish for women, beards and ties for the men!

I think an additional exception to section 22 of the GRA should be added so it is not an offence to disclose in relation to an EA single sex exception. Also it should be a criminal offence for the GRC holder to fail to disclose in these circumstances.

Absolutely agree.

I think this is why ScottishWomen is right and a focus on the sex exemptions in EqA is so vital. We need to look at it as to the limits of entitlement a GRC will extend.

I agree but this won't work unless changes are made to the current GRA. Section 22 of the GRA prohibits disclosure of someone's birth sex without their permission if they have a GRC, if that information has been obtained in a professional capacity. There are a tiny few exceptions - courts, tribunals and social security.

Where a tw has a GRC, and therefore a new birth certificate that says 'female', there appears to be no way of preventing them from claiming to have always been female.

I think an additional exception to section 22 of the GRA should be added so it is not an offence to disclose in relation to an EA single sex exception. Also it should be a criminal offence for the GRC holder to fail to disclose in these circumstances.

Man Friday blog on self-ID and driving licences

manfridayuk.org/2018/04/20/self-id-and-driving-licences/

Also, the political dynamics in Scotland are different than in England. The policy is unpopular intellectually but still motivates a relatively small number of people to get involved in activism or campaigning. However, if it's perceived that a headlong rush to self-ID will have a negative impact on indy support, it will mean a large number of people get off the fence to protect their main political priority.

I wonder about Sturgeon's wisdom in all this.

Applicants are already required to provide proof of 'living in the acquired gender' but it's just a few name changed documents

yes, I think when responding to the new consultation, it's going to be important to make the point that if there's no medical involvement, and the key objective indicator of applicants sincerity is that they have been 'living as their acquired gender for 6 months', then we need to be very clear on what that means. With the removal of medical gatekeeping, that becomes very important

This is obviously utterly meaningless. You need a GP letter to change the sex on your passport but the other documents can be changed just by asking.

Indeed. I was saying elsewhere yesterday that living as a woman evidentially essentially comprises changing the name on your gas bill now. And, if the medical diagnosis criterion for getting a GRC is removed, that is all it will mean.

I think this is why ScottishWomen is right and a focus on the sex exemptions in EqA is so vital. We need to look at it as to the limits of entitlement a GRC will extend.

Proper accessible Equality Act guidance on single sex exemption would have an immediate effect. Establishments are frightened of getting it wrong, of being targeted and of being found in breach of the law so they have been capitulating to utter nonsense. They are at fault but when their next grant is dependent on evidenced inclusivity best got by paying for government sanctioned and funded staff training complete with incorrect guidance with a government stamp and a rainbow on the cover...

Completely agree. Thank you for everything ScottishWomen. You're amazing.

Thank you for all your hard work getting us here

Could someone point me towards some information on what I can help with now (emailing, meetings etc)? Would it help to have a specific thread to bring it together in one place?

It's worth looking at the current process for getting a GRC.

www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate

Applicants are already required to provide proof of 'living in the acquired gender' but it's just a few name changed documents:

Proof you’ve lived in your acquired gender

This proof must cover the required time that you’ve lived in your acquired gender. It could include copies of your:

- passport
- driving licence
- payslips or benefit documents
- utility bills or other documents of an official nature

All documents should be in your acquired name and gender. The earliest document must be dated before the beginning of the required time.

The indepth guidance that comes with the application form suggests 5 or 6 documents to cover the whole 2 year period.

This is obviously utterly meaningless. You need a GP letter to change the sex on your passport but the other documents can be changed just by asking.

One of the Man Friday chaps managed to change her driving licence to male just by sending the form with no supporting evidence, and then changed it back again just as easily.

And if they can define for legal purposes 'living in an acquired gender' how will that work?

It depends on what sort of definition they come up with. I think now it is based mostly around changing their name on documents.

I have seen stuff about transsexuals in the past being expected to dress in stereotypical opposite sex clothing and use opposite sex facilities, but I'm not sure if that was the 'living as the opposite sex' test for a GRC, or for surgery.

It's clear none of these things are actually living as the opposite sex, though.

But you can't make a law about 'living in an acquired gender' without defining what that actually means.

And if they can define for legal purposes 'living in an acquired gender' how will that work?

Will women (born female) have to follow this law? If not, why not? And surely, if women (born female) don't have to follow this law, then we'll back where we are now with women (born male) complaining they are being treated differently, are not validated, are oppressed, have to conform, blah blah blah ad infinitum.
So, where we are today. Except with Gender Police.

Well done to all the brilliant women getting this debate opened up

Massive props to everyone that played a part in halting this juggernaut.
It will have a ripple effect far beyond Scotland.

Incidentally, the Scottish consultation was one of the first things that made me go
A trans identifying male person posted a link to it in a closed Facebook group for women (the new, unofficial definition, obvs) asking cis-sisters to fill it out. There was something about their request that put my hackles up but I clicked the link expecting to fill it out in support of reform.

Working my way through it, it was full of red flags, and it ended up being part of my ascent to the peak.

Funny how things work out.

Huge thanks and well done to all fronts of Scottish Women. And more power to all female elbows ongoing.

It seems a bit 'peoples front of judea' up there

ha! You know, I get mixed up between Fairplayforwomen, Standingforwomen and WomensplaceUK 'down there' too. ;-)

And, actually, GIRES and GIDS

Scottish You are a total shero! Thank you so much for getting us to the point of debate. Surely sunlight will show this up for the unworkable no sense it is

Great work, ScottishWomen

Scottishdoll and Scottishwomen, thank you that's great I will follow the links... And thank you for the amazing work.

Cismyfatarse, yes I know. That's why I'm asking what they are called so I can look them up and donate.

@ScottishWomen Thank you!

Argh at the 'emotive stories swing politicians into prioritising us and removing rights from women' stuff....

while women keep plugging steadily away with things like logic and facts and statistics that haven't been massaged and pointing out laws that being misrepresented.

If a lot of emotive stories about the needs and feelings of women and children is what works on government these days as opposed to balanced consideration and facts then fine, we can produce that too.

scottish thanks for your work, I have young kids and worry about what’s happening in schools so it’s great that the current guidance is to be removed /replaced hopefully by something that takes the equality act into account!

Scottiswomen well done!