SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

The recent arguments about the census give me some hope.

This.

Once the issues were pulled out in conversation, there was a real moment of... 'oh'. And then reality took over. And sensible ways forward were found.

Nicola's talking out of her bum trying to defer the outrage and realisation of what this means for as long as possible. You cannot bring out self id while protecting single sex spaces, the two things are mutually exclusive and she knows it. If you agree men are women if they say so and must be therefore treated exactly as if they are women, you've just deleted women as a concept and thrown biological females to the wolves. On the grounds that people with penises matter more than people with vaginas.

Sexism. Own it.

We must all be rabid SNP-ers who would kill our grannies for Nicola Sturgeon. The tone of which carries more than a whiff of misogyny itself

This. But I suspect it's the anti Scots shite which bothers me more. Aiming snide remarks at us and our parliament, when Boris is about to get in as leader is frankly spectacularly lacking in self awareness.

How hot on women's rights will he be?

What Lisbon said ☝️

It's just the same rhetoric pro-Indy people always face. We must all be rabid SNP-ers who would kill our grannies for Nicola Sturgeon. The tone of which carries more than a whiff of misogyny itself, BTW.

I do hope there are SNP members who do care though

There are. I'm one.

To be honest though, I don't appreciate the tone especially given the aiming at Scots.

We have enough shite to put up with without threats, sort your own parliament out thanks.

Would love it if all the women going after an announcement blockaded the male loos in the building 'self IDing' XD

If we remain part of the UK, will women's rights be any more protected? Is Westminster going to continue on this self ID path, or will they wait to see how it plays out in Scotland before deciding?

Don't be daft @Igneococcus you've no idea what those people think about anything.

I'm pretty desperate for independence, especially in light of Prime Minister Johnson but this is the one issue that gives me pause. They've got this so so wrong that it's left me feeling like I have to choose between independence and women's safety.

Of course, we're all politically homeless on this issue right now, so that's another concern. Just don't judge, is what I'm saying.

The Times are allowing good comments on that article-someone has stated that GRCs should be abolished, as people cannot change sex so why are politicians pretending it is possible.

I was an SNP member but I resigned over this issue and told them why. I am now politically homeless.

I would ask that we all continue to challenge this. The Scottish Government have not completed a full impact assessment on the proposals and have ignored the rights of women and girls based on the protected characteristic of sex. That is the start of any challenge

Women and Girls in Scotland have some useful resources on this
Four demands wgscotland.org.uk/actions/
and a useful fact sheet
wgscotland.org.uk/factsheets/

I would also recommend forwomen.scot and and Scottish-Women.com
all grassroots feminist organisations set up to protect the rights of women and girls

Igneococcus I am not an SNP member but I support independence. Passionately. Yet, I do not want an independent Scotland where women's sex-based rights have been lost.

This might be the first time in my life where I have to decide between two causes that matter hugely to me and to the future of my children, but I know what I am prioritising and why. Because of everything I have learnt around the issue in the last 18 months and my own life experiences, I fear that while independence can be won later, women's rights, once lost, will be much harder to regain.

As a lifelong Green Party voter and having never voted Conservative before, I am now prepared to throw my support behind any candidates who stand up to defend women's sex-based rights. Even if that is a Conservative. I'd much more happily support Labour or the SNP, but I don't hold out much hope that they will field local candidates who will commit to supporting women's rights.

Scotland remaining a part of the UK will not immediately make our lives worse, but losing our rights - whether within or without the UK - definitely will.

Pat Kane got handed his arse on a plate last week for telling us to ignore the pesky self ID problem because it will risk independence. Tough shit.

The huge problem is the lack of anyone else to bloody vote for.

I agree Scrimshaw. There is a hardcore that will not be swayed no matter what happens, the rest are the important ones. I just wish any party would break rank on this issue. Where is Ruth Davidson on this?

And if Sturgeon comes out with stuff like this: ' I am a lifelong feminist. Issues about women’s rights and the protection of women from abuse runs very strongly with me. The Equality Act already allows for trans people . . . to be excluded from women-only spaces if that is justified and the proposals here do not change the Equality Act.”'

then she either is being rather dim or disingenuous.

The exact and precise issue with self ID is that it threatens the Equality Act, because there will be no marker that differentiates between a trans person and anyone else. How can she not understand this? It's fairly simple.

Yes, you're probably right, Igneococcus. Hardcore SNPers care for no issues as much as they care for independence.

But most people are not hardcore, and the people they need to convince to swing that independence vote are - I suspect- very likely to care. This doesn't just need to be SNP members, either. To win an independence referendum, they'll need cross party appeal.

Because if you are really serious about your last hope of gaining independence, this could be exactly the right own goal that sinks that ship.

There was an independance rally in my small West coast town last Saturday and I don't believe the people who came all the way from god knows where (loads of the participants where very clearly not local) in their Saltire draped cars, with the Saltire painted on their and their children's (including tiny babies) faces and driving vans with "Scotland Freedom fighter" painted on care about any of this at all. I think Nicola Sturgeon could torture a puppy on live TV and they'd still wave their "I'm with Nicola" banners.
I do hope there are SNP members who do care though.

I have mixed my metaphors instead of swearing. That's how angry I am.

Be interesting to hear how they intend to allow anyone to self-ID with no medical intervention, and yet maintain single-sex spaces.

Because that looks to be impossible.

Also the unintended consequences of this that we are already seeing. There seem to be a lot of sexual assaults on young girls in Scotland recently. The Scottish Parliament are creating a climate of emboldening predatory men already.

Here are a couple from just this week.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4377060/sex-attack-schoolgirl-restaurant-cubicle-livingston-knife-lube/

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4382264/peregrine-burgess-peebles-scottish-borders-nhs-sexual-assault/

This from last month:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48377204

February

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/819644/mum-of-supermarket-toilet-sex-assault-victim-warns-freed-attacker-could-strike-again/

All of these involve toilets or pervs wanting access to watch young girls pee.

Should we really be giving these men automatic access to women's toilets? And how do we prevent it under self-ID? And is the Scottish Parliament complicit in signalling to these men that they are entitled to female single-sex spaces already?

(trying to compose something without wall to wall swearing)

IF there are any SNP people reading this, MAY I SUGGEST you do a poll on your members/people likely to vote for independence, and ask them VERY CLEARLY if they support Self ID? You're going to need to be blunt so that people understand. You're going to need to explain clearly that people with penises will now be able to access single sex spaces wherever they wish with no way to bar them/challenge them.

Because if you are really serious about your last hope of gaining independence, this could be exactly the right own goal that sinks that ship.

Women (real women, with all the womanly bits, periods, childbirth, menopause, etc etc etc) will be the ones to see and feel the effects of this. They will know that you introduced it. They will not forget. They are 50% of the population and they vote.

Katie Dolatowski was just the start. This is not going to get easier, it's not going to go away.

I know many people won't bother to engage with the GRA and self-id issue, but I wish there was a way to get the information out to the wider public in Scotland.
Most people are unaware of the nuances and potential safeguarding issues as they still imagine trans people to be old school transsexuals and not the new ideology of a gender identity soul that is more important and real than biological sex and the dozens of non-binary 'genders' and that a transwoman can mean anyone including cross dressers as long as you claim the label woman.

Mainstream media doesn't go into these details so people think it's usually about a few transsexuals and they don't see what the problem is.

Because there's a delay to look again I think?

I mean, I'm not thrilled by it, by the TRAs seem to be raging, so I guess it must be not-all-bad.

Why are they raging?

What does this mean though?

If TWAW it means nothing.

I don't believe a single word they say on this matter - their^^ reassurances are worth fuck all while they piss down our backs and tell us it's raining.

Surely it's just the same flannel that they all spout about it "not affecting the EA or single sex exemptions"?