SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

Going by the order paper, 3.30 or 3.50 is an estimate. There is a sequence if items between 2.00 and 5.30.

bb.parliament.scot/#20190620

and the live feed:

www.scottishparliament.tv/

This has also been leaked, which if correct looks quite hopeful IMO?

Thank you lazymare. Thought I was going mad!

Yes. Details on here. Known as wee prick
Jordon on this thread.

I was suffering from insomnia in the early hours and am convinced I saw that the boyfriend of an MSP or somesuch had laid bare on Twitter the exact contents and timescale of this forthcoming announcement. Did I dream this or did anyone else see it? I can't find it now. I read about it on FB, as not on Twitter.

That's fine. I'm sure the change will be reported appropriately in the press - as a cynical way of preventing women participating in democratic process and silencing our voices.

Same old, same old.

Its starting to look that way. If its accidental, then it just shows how ignorant they are of the caring responsibilities women have to manage.

Why have they changed the time? Is that to wrong foot women who might have to leave to get children from school? Meaning that the seats are all available for the trans activists?

I am very nervous about this - I’ve voted SNP for years, admire their protection of the nhs and am pro-Indy. However this is a game changer and I will never vote for them again if this gets pushed through. If further consultation is announced then I would be happy with that as it gives us more time, and we know the tide is beginning to turn

Statement time has changed

its now at 3.30

I don't doubt that's exactly why they're so furious that a second round of consultation might be on the cards jhuizinga. They know it's going to play out in public rather than in private and they know that even people who support them but didn't really engage fully will now be watching a much wider, more detailed and two sided debate.

They won't get away with passing everything off as "transphobic" for much longer, I think even they realise it's starting to sound ludicrous. They also won't get away with their lies about "GRA not having any impact on EqA" because the conversation about overlaps and conflicts is becoming much more mainstream. Nobody can answer simple questions about how any of this can be applied in practice. They're also trying hard to push the "what is trans anyway?" question back in its box.

People are paying way more attention, detailed scrutiny is afoot and they don't like it one little bit.

Only total capitulation will satisfy the trans-lobby. There will be no room for sensible solutions such as third spaces. I hope this becomes obvious as any bill goes through the Scottish Parliament because it may open the eyes of current agnostics. Allowing daylight on the arguments made by the supporters of self-ID always shows up how lacking in coherence and sense they are. So I hope the issue gets lots of publicity now. Otherwise I really despair for my country.

Michelle I wish this is how they will proceed, but I have a horrible feeling Nicola will just say, its happened in Malta, Ireland etc etc no problems, so its happening here too. Totally ignoring all facts to the contrary. However, if Nicola plays this properly, she will win so much respect.

@Michelleoftheresistance This is what so many women don't get, that the trans movement is not benign. They don't want safe third spaces, they want to be validated, and sincerely believe it's our job as women to do this for them. They're so angry we're saying no. I suspect they underestimated women.

And probably in all fairness use of a grandfather clause that all people currently with a GRA can continue the legal fiction awarded them, but no further ones will be issued. No more legal fictions, just acceptance of there being additional provisions in all situations for those who prefer not to use the facilities of their sex. Hospitals, prisons, changing rooms, loos, whatever.

Whatever ground the TRA lobby gains, it's merely a starting point. That is another fact that the numpties in politics won't acknowledge. This is not the end game, it's just the opening moves.

The only fair, human rights based solution is third spaces. Which meet everyone's needs but require government to have the guts to say firmly, we respect your choice of identity, we respect your need for different provision and safety because we get male violence is a huge issue, and here is the plan to enforce third space roll out nationally with funding, but your sex is not the same as your gender, and single sex spaces are for that sex only. End of. Line is here. X number of refuges will be gendered, X will stay single sex. And there will be robust protections for women to protect single sex spaces and to back up organisations who have to deal with someone of one sex trying to use facilities for the other sex, instead of their own sexed facilities or the additional ones provided. And the GRA goes because what's the point, self ID as you like. That will be absolutely respected. It just won't be regarded as legal status of the opposite sex.

Cue: Rage.

I think that's the best we can hope for @Mbwashenzi

LassofFyvie Given that GRA reform was first mooted by the Conservative Government and the fact that all the other parties support self-id, I don't see how this would lose the SNP any more support than all the other ones do.

I still want independence, but for now I am determined to focus my energy on defending women's sex-based rights and campaigning against legal sex self-id. It's the more urgent issue right now.

And knowing other independence supporters, it's simply not true that they don't care about anything else. And at least one new women's rights group actually grew out of an independence campaign group, so there are plenty GC indy supporters.

There's a Witches Well at the other end of the Royal Mile from Holyrood.

www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-witches-well-edinburgh-scotland

Would it be a good spot to launch a protest against our elected representatives collective gynaephobia?

'You cannot bring out self id while protecting single sex spaces'

Yep. It's one or the other. Either we have single sex spaces or we don't.

Totally agree @InTheHeatofLisbon

As a nation we can elect a rampant racist misogynistic narcissist but Scottish people are wrong for supporting a leader who has generally shown herself to be human, canny, and benevolent. Wrong as shite on this issue though she surely is.

I care far more about staying in the UK than whether or not the Scottish government changes the GRA. If this loses support for the nationalists, crack on. I don't think it will. I don't think most people care.