Ed Davey Webchat

Aren't libdems pro porn and prostitution too? The "We all make our own choosy choices" brigade

Yeah i voted lib dem, dh has voted lib dem in the last GE and loves chukka so would be voting moving forward as well

I won’t bother in future...and not because of their views per se, but more the ‘no debate’ aspect...and yeah the prostitution bit is a shitty move

Trans is not a lefty movement, its neoliberal and supported by several big players on the Right, including Jennifer Pritzker.
Its supported by the Labour Party as they have abandoned Socialism and class politics in favour of neoliberalism.

@theOtherPamAyres
Okay thanks for clearing that up! Trans is such a Lefty movement that I had some hope that the conservatives would at least not cave on this. But trans is a male rights movement so we should of course expect the conservatives to be on board with it too I suppose

Aren't libdems pro porn and prostitution too? The "We all make our own choosy choices" brigade.
At least the conservatives acknowledge that porn and prostitution need to be reigned in. Yes for different reasons to feminists . I cannot believe the conservatives seem like the best option for women. What kind of upside down today turvy world is this?

I'm considering voting conservative

The Conservative government is the worst offender, as far as the erosion of women's protections are concerned. Since being in power, they have introduced self i/d by stealth in public services and governmental advice to businesses.

They have been in thrall to Trans pressure groups to the extent of funding them and their training courses. They considered Mermaids a key "stakeholder". It was a Conservative government that invited Gendered intelligence to sit on a review board to make decisions about the placement of self described trans people into women's prisons - despite the fact that GI had no expertise in offender management. The Conservatives were responsible for Karen White, in other words.

One single solitary Conservative MP has backed women. The rest show no interest - or if they do, they keep a low profile.

The Conservative party has done untold damage to the protections that safeguarded women and children before they came to power. There is no sign of a reversal in the policy of 'inclusion'.

There is no way that the Conservative Party can persuade me that it has my and your interest at heart.

Neurotrash I am coming round to the view that we should vote LibDem but only for candidates who we know to be GC. By doing that we strengthen the GC ranks within the parties and hopefully create a platform for the GC element to grow in the future and become dominant.Ifwe all spoil our voted TBH it achieves nothing.

So no vote for Ed Davey needless to say!

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

Unite? With whom? Which transwomen suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM?

Unfortunately...

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-quizzed-gender-neutral-toilets-16437625

But I reckon they're the best bet tbh.

I do personally know a lot of GC greens and labour candidates though.

I hate the right but I'm just so incensed by the insanity that I'm considering voting conservative. Have the conservatives definitely said they'll honor women's spaces?

Missed all this (as I was doing woman things like mothering and breastfeeding a poorly baby) and just caught up on the original thread, to the definition of women.

My thoughts:

Wow.

Mansplaining on mumsnet about what a woman is.

To many women who've suffered because of their biological sex.

Don't even deserve a biscuit.

I've always voted LD, no more votes from me.

I voted Lib dem (reluctantly) for the EU elections.

Congratulations Ed! You just lost two voters (DH as well) who were looking for a political home.

I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be - and not to be told who they are by society.

Unless you are a woman who doesn't want to be stuffed in a gender box, and then we will enshrine sexist ideology in law. And if you don't like it we will tell you that you are mums on mumsnet who should really be talking about prams. After all shouldn't you be putting other people first? Isn't that what good mothers do?

Aaaaaaargh!!!!!!

EverardDigby wrote
"I work with women who as children have been sexually abused, trafficked, experienced crime and violence in their families, been in care, i and I have never met people as disadvantaged, misunderstood and discriminated against, yet their lives have been massively changed by women only space."

Macareaux wrote
"it's no skin off your nose. Your not a young girl hoping to excel in women's sports. You're not an abused women having to shack up in a shelter with an abusive man called Tiffany."

Azuresilver wrote
"The vast majority of women and men couldn't care less about it - it doesn't affect us."

That's nice. Was it just bad timing, Azure?

You know what? I took one small positive out of poor Ed's floundering with his fucking fig roll.

Which was: he completely failed to even include the nod to "women have raised some concerns which not transphobic blah which we will end up ignoring but we are at least trying to keep women onside nods pats heads^ that a lot (most?) politicians have starting doing in the last few months.

Keep puuuuuuuulllllllllling.

Using that example to claim that all trans people are dangerous

Why don't you and that half arsed prat of a politician actual listen to what we are saying, rather than imaging what we are saying.

falsely claiming to be trans

You can't falsely claim to be trans if trans is based on self declaration. That's what self-ID is.

Anyway: one women or child harmed is one too many for me. Not for you?

I wonder if you realise how much damage you are doing to the reputation of Mumsnet in the real world by this incessant harping on about a non-issue?

Just think of the damage we are doing talking about women rather than prams.

It is rather a 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

@Azuresilver
No one is falsely claiming to be trans. Acceptance without exception. Karen White is 100% genuine trans and you are transphobic to deny her.
Or do you have some magic ability to discern the purity of transness before a major embarrassment? If so can you share it with the world.

I'm glad you think that losing hard fought for sex based rights won't affect you (and other female members of your family).

To quote Joni Mitchell - you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

@Azuresilver

Where did you get your blinkers? They're very effective.

I don't want trans people to be demonised

Neither do I. However, you can't defend the rights of people in a specific group if you can't explain who is in that group or why their rights are threatened. This applies to trans people as much as women.

Yes there are a few cases of evil people misusing trans rights in order to be abusive, e.g. convicted murderers abusing people after falsely claiming to be trans.

Self ID makes it impossible to say that anyone is 'falsely claiming to be trans'. Could you explain why these people are 'falsely claiming to be trans'?

There are also examples of prisoners claiming to be Muslim in order to have what they think is better food and more free time

To be honest, I think it's also difficult to claim that somebody does or doesn't hold a particular faith, and I'm sceptical that Muslims get much better food. However I can at least define a Muslim as somebody who follows a particular doctrine. How would you define gender and why do you think people of different genders should be treated differently?

paranoid minority

I'm not frightened of trans people, I am frightened of loss of the ability to protect sex based rights, which are needed despite, not because of identity.

I will vote UKIP before I vote Lib Dem.

And before anyone starts calling me names: you’re wasting your time, I don’t care what names you call me.

@Azuresilver That's great for you.

But, in a democracy we get to discuss ideas, express our thoughts and engage with politicians.

Some of us have opinions that are very different from you. And we don't take kindly to being patronised by other posters, or by politicians.

From the increase in traffic to the FWR board I would say not much damage intact I would say raising awareness of issues that women face.