Councillor wants Mayor to make all toilets gender neutral

I'm shocked.
Not really.

Never happens...

It's so stark-staringly obvious isn't it? I mean how many more do we need, before someone (I'm looking at you, Andy Preston) has the Damascan level revelation that pervs & sex offenders would quite like to share facilities with women & children.

Yes, that's playing it safe, I know.

@ZebrasAreBras only half? That’s very generous of you!

Let's hope that this information gets as much coverage as the individual's demands to share toilets with women and children.

Honestly. Why can't we just say it? Half the people campaigning for an end to women's single-sex facilities are bloody pervs.

We see you. What shocks me, is why doesn't everyone else see it? It's as plain as day to me.

Prepare to be not-shocked.

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/middlesbrough-tory-councillor-appear-court-16586889.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Middlesbrough councillor accused of nine child sex offences resigns from Conservative party

Councillor David Smith described the allegations as 'spurious' and vowed to clear his name in court

unless I am missing the point, the stalls/cubicles will still be one person use so why does it matter? I am not worried if I come out of the loo and there is a male cleaner standing there and I certainly don't care who is sitting in the cubicle next to me.

So where is the risk?

So, you'd be okay with someone like JY taking pictures of minor female children? Asking minor female children if JY can help them with their tampons or other menstrual products? With the men who were recently arrested for sexual assault (to follow all the men before them) of girls in women's washrooms? There was a recent case where a ten year old girl was assaulted by a man in the washroom.

Thank you for the link to that article sunset, it's a really great analysis and points out the farce of able bodied men deciding what's right for women and people with disabilities.

I know that the author is potentially risking many things by publishing this piece, including her job but it's so far been well received.

Make all the gents unisex then and leave the women’s as is.

From the article in the OP.

"I understand, clearly, there will be some concerns from some councillors and members of the public but the risk does not increase once public toilets become gender neutral.

"In fact, if anyone has any intention in committing a crime at present, they will do so.

"This is about creating a much more safer environment for transgender and non binary people."

So they're saying that a change from single sex to mixed sex doesn't increase the risk for women (so there is no risk to women from having to share the toilets with men). But then they say that the risk is decreased for trans and non binary people if the toilets are mixed sex.

What risk is there for trans and non binary people in having to use single sex toilets which suddenly disappears when the toilets become mixed sex?

I don't understand why they can't just add on a few extra toilets that are GN. I know it would cost money but at least everyone would be 'happy' and have somewhere to go where they're comfortable (good for the long-term). Women can use the women's, men can use the men's, disabled use disabled and anyone not falling into that category of biologically being male/female/people who don't care, can use a GN toilet.

I've been to plenty of gay bars where all the toilets are GN and it works well in there- purely because there's security and they're adamant that two people cannot use the same toilet. Even groups of friends have to go in one at a time. Plus, it's busy so there will always people around to step in if necessary. Anyone who flaunts the rules immediately gets chucked out or the police called on them, depending on what has happened.

I'd like to hope that that would be a good solution for everyone, and I'd be annoyed if someone wasn't happy with that because they weren't being treated as a 'real woman'. I've had a s. assault happen on me in the past and I wouldn't feel comfortable with men using the same communal toilet as me, regardless if they were biological or transitioning. I'd only feel comfortable if it was busy and I had a friend or partner with me.

twitter.com/TheNorthernEcho/status/1148920529493155840?s=19

Middlesbrough Council to trial to gender neutral toilets - feminist campaigner says women have 'a right to single sex spaces' t.co/Dw7wNlNwuU

IME its not just adults that are a problem. Ive never been a fan of mixed sex toilets since first year at primary school (in the 1970s). A boy in my class repeatedly followed me into my cubicle (no locks on the doors) and made me touch him. I think he was expelled as I told my parents and have a memory of a teacher following him into the toilets, finding us both in the same cubicle and shouting quite a lot and then he never came back to school.

So, theres a risk for you.

Glad I re-read this thread.

With all the rage about Olly Alexander -Years & Years -@ Glastonbury,

I went back and Listened to his interviews where he says that a trans-women are women and should be allowed to use the toilet.

Since men do not share the same risk of physical violence that are part of the life experiences of women and girls it would make sense that if any toilets are to become mixed sex it would be the male toilets. Hide the urinals behind a wall at the far end, and replace the Men's toilet sign on the door with one that says Gender Neutral.

Leave the disabled and women's toilets as they are. Of course the men who want access to female spaces for validation, or for all the other even more nefarious reasons we've seen discussed on this thread won't be happy, but they'll just have to re-educate themselves and learn to cope.

courtnewsuk.co.uk/?s=voyeurism

Why are there so many of these weird-looking middle-aged men who are desperate to bring about a situation where they can share toilets with women and girls?

"This is about creating a much more safer environment for transgender and non binary people."

Fuck the safety of women!

He looks like someone I’d love share a toilet with.

Yes I know we shouldn’t comment on people’s appearance, but heyho.

Apollo440
So what difference will the type of cubicle make to the girls safety if a man can follow her into the toilets?

I’d prefer for the status quo to remain. However just relabelling existing toilets as gender-neutral is much riskier for women because they usually consist of cubicles in a room, often with a substantial door, away from passing foot traffic. You come out of the cubicles into the hand washing area. So it’s much easier for an attack to be perpetrated without other people being aware.

Sometimes public toilets can be empty when you go in and that can give some offenders the confidence to pounce. Other times they can be very noisy. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of someone hiding in a cubicle and waiting for someone to enter and attack them then. Women and girls can be intimidated to keep quiet, especially if threatened. Muffled cries can go unheard. Whereas the fully enclosed toilets make voyeurism more difficult, and often they open on to corridors or areas with foot traffic because the hand washing facilities are inside them. They are, and feel less, secluded, and that will put off many potential attackers.

Uncommon Ground Media have just published an article on the importance of women’s toilets:

uncommongroundmedia.com/flushing-womens-toilets/