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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I'm basically just having a moan (contains trans)

30 replies

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:00

I want to join a feminist organisation and go to feminist actions, but I don't want to talk about trans anything. I want to talk about bathroom provision, but not about trans. I want to talk about pay, but not about trans. I want to talk about mothering, but... Well, you get it. I also don't want to talk about not talking about trans.

It's not possible is it? There's no such thing? Trans-rights people will want me to talk about trans AND gender-critical people will want me to talk about trans. I have to pick a side, don't I? Dammit.

OP posts:

MrsBertBibby · 18/06/2019 06:21

it bothers me that the NSPCC have the right to remove children from families

Let me unbother you. The NSPCC have no such right.

2BthatUnnoticed · 18/06/2019 06:03

The focus of most radfems I know is on single sex spaces (refuges, rape crisis centres etc). It’s hard not to talk about trans stuff in this context, as the mandated “trans inclusive” approach means that any apparently male person (be they are genuine TW or predatory male) can seek entry.

I believe there are libfem groups focusing on things like period poverty (although you would need to toe the TWAW line) - might be an option?

DpWm · 17/06/2019 21:12

There are hundreds of feminist groups out there that don't let you talk about trans , are you on Facebook? Insta?
Feminism groups there will basically talk their days away about all sorts of things, loos, sex industry stuff, pay gaps, or whatever, and any mention of trans will have you slapped on the wrist! Give them a try x

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 21:09

OhHoly I think you've got it. I need to pick my special interest and get involved there.

OP posts:

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 21:07

Hmmm, on the loo thing, it could be for safety, at least in some places. Or it could be because men are sure to piss in the first place they come to, regardless.

OP posts:

BitOfFun · 17/06/2019 17:44

It's the big issue of our time though. I'd rather focus on reproductive rights and access to abortion etc, but unfortunately the trans issue is also encroaching on that: women at universities and elsewhere are basically being told to shut up about it because it makes transpeople feel excluded.

HorsewithnoHoldsBarred · 17/06/2019 17:36

I do think the title of this thread is funny. Each time I see it I think of those warnings on labels about nuts and that. (Contains trans)

JellySlice · 17/06/2019 17:16

A rare event, Pickle

OhHolyJesus · 17/06/2019 17:00

I used to work in GAP and the ladies was upstairs which I always though was odd as they would be more likely to have buggies and we only had one small lift.

Lots of issues to discuss OP so maybe if you have an area of interest like DV or something that runs a real-life group near you, you could get involved there? I'm increasingly finding GC friends and activities in real life as that suits my interests but I come on here to learn and for a moan. I'm very keen to keep abreast of the trans issues but I appreciate it's not for everyone. Happy to engage in debates around surrogacy, sex work, gender pay gap - anything really. Would be good to see more of thread on those topics .

picklemepopcorn · 17/06/2019 16:51

Jelly is both faster and more succinct. Pah.

picklemepopcorn · 17/06/2019 16:51

Leaf, I've wondered why men get the closest loos, but think that women get to be further away because it feels safer. By the time I've made it to the ladies, it's pretty much a man free zone. If I were being followed by a man at that point, I'd know he was up to no good.

JellySlice · 17/06/2019 16:50

The reason the men's toilet is generally nearer the main space is so that they have no excuse to walk past the women's toilet.

Of course, when men design toilet layout they recognise that some men will take advantage of any access to women, and, unlike women discussing such topics, never need to say NAMALT.

twicemummy1 · 17/06/2019 16:39

I agree. I think surrogacy and forced adoption is a much more pressing and worrying women's issue but all of my energy has been taken up by trans bollocks.

For example it bothers me that the NSPCC have the right to remove children from families. How do we not they're not targeting young, poor , single mothers? Do the NSPCC get to define what an unfit mother is? And women might have their babies taken away based on an NSPCC opinion/definition rather than be offered financial and emotional support to help them cope if they're struggling. Now I'm wondering who the NSPCC actually are, apart from pervs in fetish gear wanking. That's all I think of when I think of the NSPCC

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:34

Ta Spartacus!

Mangoes re: bathrooms. Women often have to queue; men rarely have to queue. Baby changing facilities are still more likely to be in the ladies. When you next go to the loo in a pub or restaurant, have a look - which loo is closest to the main space? It's almost always the men's. Toilet provision is clearly all kinds of wrong already, without getting into trans issues.

On equal pay, it's more about gendered culture now - women are more likely to be cleaners and child care workers, while men are more likely to be warehouse workers. Are these jobs paid equally? And while we're on it, until the proportion of men and women in particular jobs/at particular levels is much closer to equal, you can tell something somewhere is going wrong.

OP posts:

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 17/06/2019 16:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:26

Yes pickleme! Why can't it just be sorted out, because surely it's not that hard! Women are women and words are useful for describing things which are different from one another.

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MangoesAreMyFavourite · 17/06/2019 16:25

What did you want to talk about re bathroom provision?
And about equal pay?

Btw, my workplace has almost got equal pay (City, financial services). There's only one band where women have slightly smaller bonuses.

picklemepopcorn · 17/06/2019 16:25

Sometimes I pop on S&B for a bit of light relief...

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:24

Ooh, no I hadn't seen that. Sadly I'm not currently attached to a uni, so it's trickier to get it.

OP posts:

picklemepopcorn · 17/06/2019 16:23

I can understand your frustration- it's like being political without talking about Brexit. The climate is collapsing, the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and all anyone cares about is whether BoJo is an idiot or not.

I want to reset the world where the trivial stuff is all sorted, and we can focus on important things.

Also, get rid of the marginal stuff. Obviously a woman does not have penis, men do not belong in women's spaces, why the hell are we having to waste time on this stuff!!?!

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:21

I know SpartacusAutisticus. I know. It just makes me crazy. We had enough problems already. And I already cared about them. I didn't want a new, more dangerous problem. Mutter, grumble, whine.

OP posts:

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 17/06/2019 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:19

OhHoly sure! No problem here. But I've been looking for a feminist group near me, and it's all 'printing stickers with correct pronouns for our self-defence sessions' and badges saying 'TERFs out'.

OP posts:

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 17/06/2019 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

leafinthewind · 17/06/2019 16:16

Crying I know. I know. It's just galling, because we're being sidetracked away from other (serious) existing problems by this entirely new problem. I've been reading Ann Oakley, who was writing about women in the family and in work in the 70s and 80s and it feels like almost nothing has changed.

And now we can't talk about that anymore without first getting our unisex separated from our gender-neutral.

OP posts:

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