Why can’t transgender lesbians just date each other?

I am a lesbian and I don’t know many other lesbians, let alone trans lesbians (who I wholeheartedly believe are women and would be open to dating).

Really? Lesbian here. If you're willing to sleep with someone who has a penis, it makes you bisexual.

That's because lesbians are only attracted to women, ie those who do not have and have never had penises.

Interesting

Our results indicated that 87.5% of the participants who were asked this very question only checked off the cisgender options and excluded transgender and non-binary individuals from their hypothetical dating pool.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/inclusive-insight/201906/why-are-so-few-people-willing-date-transgender-person

I did see recently in a piece of TRA rhetoric that women (the old fashioned, saggy titted kind) have no business calling themselves homosexual if they haven't even tried giving penis bearers a go first.

Now just imagine that being used for any other sex/sexuality

Gay men are not truly gay if they have not muffdived
Straight men cannot call themselves straight if they haven't gave a blowjob
Straight women are not straight if they haven't shagged a woman.

Its just ridiculous. Yet common among TRAs and their supporters

I did see recently in a piece of TRA rhetoric that women (the old fashioned, saggy titted kind) have no business calling themselves homosexual if they haven't even tried giving penis bearers a go first.

As if it's something you're only allowed to do if you've proved fully first that you don't work properly for penises. Call me whatever names you like, I believe there are plenty for male excluding lesbians these days, but I knew by the age of 11 I had no interest in boys and lots in girls, and thankfully was brought up to believe you just went with your instincts instead of having to follow a rule book of 'you must try to do it properly with a male first, even if you're not remotely interested or attracted and you know perfectly well you're attracted to females'.

Yay little lesbian. Start your sex life with a really lousy forced experience due to guilt and a lot of homophobia, because as a society we'd never instruct a heterosexual boy that he has to get it on with another boy before his preferences for girls is acceptable.

Any case, what I was getting at was more that if some people don't like to be definite about the future, it may not reflect a real difference of opinion, so it might not be something to get bogged down in. I think its unreasonable to expect people to be attracted to a particular sex which they aren't attracted to normally just because they change their clothes and call themselves lesbians, even though I might not say never ever.

Are you sure they aren’t bisexual? The lesbians I know would be repulsed by just the thought.

People sometimes have sex with someone they aren't really attracted to, maybe not for sexual pleasure. Though some people do seem more able to enjoy sex without much reference to whether they are actually attracted to the other person.

Also many people might not consider a one-off type of situation enough to change how they thought of their sexuality generally speaking.

Lesbians can and do sometimes have sex with men, it happens and I agree never and ever are not helpful words.

This is the thing, isn't it? A homosexual woman making a decision about their sexual orientation - and that sometimes including other forms of sex as well as lesbian - is exploitable territory in argument to try and validate the idea that a heterosexual male can be a lesbian and expect homosexual women to have sex with him.

Except no, lesbian is a homosexual woman. A male born person has a whole host of sexual orientations available to him encompassing all options, with full freedom of choice that may vary over a lifetime, but 'lesbian' isn't one of them.

Insisting it is more important to validate a chosen female identity by warping a woman's term for women only sex, and then from that stand point pivoting to say all homosexual women must now include males in their sex life if the males choose a female identity - is batshit. And abusive.

And yet here we are, trying to argue our right to be lesbian. And not have our terms, our identities, our legal rights stolen in the name of a male who wants freedom to choose them if he wants to.

Lesbians can and do sometimes have sex with men, it happens and I agree never and ever are not helpful words. But lesbians do not believe, not really, Not in private, not truly, that a man with a penis is really a woman or really a lesbian. Nope.

Sorry, I know lesbian with a penis is a stupid term. I use it to highlight how stupid the ideology is generally. As anyone with a little sense knows that lesbians are exclusively women attracted to women, its only a few..and usually MRA/incel types, who think men can be lesbians and lesbians should bow to the mighty ladydick.

Lesbians are turned on by women. They are attracted to their smell, their sex organs, breasts, curves, skin, hair, everything about them. Their essential femaleness.

I suspect some of the difference in opinion on the idea of saying "no, never" really comes down to a personality type that doesn't like to make definitive statements about the future. I am that way, I almost never say I would never do something, I find it difficult to go farther than "I can't see that happening," even if it is something quite important to me.
Other people seem to feel quite differently about statements like that, whether they are about important or even unimportant things, they are very definitive.

I wish people would stop saying "lesbian with a penis". It's just so fucking offensive andd stupid. No lesbian ever had a penis and no lesbian would want sex with one on the basis that it's owner is 'really a woman,'. FFS!!!!

A tautology surely?

No it isn’t. Cosmetic surgery does not change someone’s biological sex.

Indeed. TRAs seem to not get that its not just about the dick, its the sex, there is more to sex than genitals, even though they insist we are obsessed with genitals.

I cannot imagine how lesbians feel when confronted with this bullshit. I am bi so sleep with both sexes but fairly certain I could not find someone who tried to look feminine who had a dick sexy (different to feminine guy, which I do often find quite sexy, massive difference between basically..pretending to be a woman, thus hanging onto sexis stereotypes for dear life I think) and if i did, I might even hang back because basically, TRA types have given me a very bad image of trans people, I expect abuse, I expect constant going on about transition, I expect sexism..which is probably unfair as 'normal' transpeople won't be like that, but its what I think now after dealing with TRAs threatening to rape me and such for 3 years now.

female lesbian is an oxymoron. By definition a lesbian is an adult human female.

but it comes across as a bit offensive to make a blanket statement about 'I wouldn't date anyone with the characteristic xxx' because you don't really know everyone so you surely can't be certain.

I disagree. Its not offensive for a lesbian to state outright that she would not be attracted to a male person, or a person with a penis. As thats what sexuality is. To say thats offensive, says that anyone being gay or straight to start with is offensive! Trying to imagine straight men being told they are mean and offensive for saying they would not sleep with someone with a dick..

summit.news/2019/06/17/study-only-3-of-straight-people-are-willing-to-date-a-transgender-person/

This has just been published. Only 3% of heterosexual people would date a trans person.

Its weird how some TRAs think about bodies. A woman isn’t a male with his penis removed and fake breasts. A man isn’t a female with no breasts and a fake penis.

I am not a lesbian, so I will describe my feelings in heterosexual terms. I am attracted to DH’s body because of his male shape: shoulders, chest, back, long legs, nice bum; his smell; his body hair; probably last of all his genitalia. I would imagine that lesbians are attracted to the shape of women’s bodies in a similar way: the curve of waist and hips, thighs, back muscles, curved arms etc.

It is almost as if they think some kind of android body is standard and then you add in breasts and vulva which equals a woman, or you add in a penis and testicles which equals a man. There is far more to being male and female than this.

I just can’t get past the phrase “ lesbian with a penis” , it’s kind of like “cat with wings”.

Because they are heterosexual

There are men out there who are furious that women reject them for other women

By being trans, they have “solved” their problem.

Most people are pretty certain about their sexual orientation by the time they are adults so yes, they are entitled to categorically state they wouldn't date a male/female, no matter how that person sees and presents themselves. If you find that offensive mindutopia then you might want to ask yourself why. Do you think people are obligated to date people they don't actually fancy?