Why are so many women ok with males taking their spaces?

If you really want an honest answer, I support trans rights because I know a few M-to-F trans people and I honestly don’t think of them as men. So I don’t see it as invading women’s spaces, simple as that. Being trans has not made their lives easy. They are the last people who would cause trouble and in some cases you wouldn’t even know that they are in “your” spaces because they’ve transitioned so thoroughly.. I’m not going to pile on to the shit these people have already gotten by refusing to acknowledge their true selves — I don’t think it’s up to us to take that control from them.

If you want to exclude trans women from a particular space how do you propose to figure out exactly who is trans? Because trust me there are many that look, sound, and present exactly as women do. There are also women who appear more masculine. Unless you want all women to carry their birth certificates around and present them on demand—which sounds a bit too Handmaid’s Tale for my tastes—all you are really doing us discriminating against those transwomen who for various reasons aren’t able to pass as well as others.

Of course you would.

But I do consider a trans person a woman and I don't feel like I am losing anything if I share a bathroom with a trans person.

It’s not about being trans, it’s about being male. It’s about allowing adult men access to spaces which are provided to women and girls to give them a measure of privacy and safety.

Away from men.

It’s estimated that 41% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders. That is twice the percentage of male prisoners.

That offers no confidence that allowing transwomen into female spaces will do anything but increase the risk to women.

“Her son hit my daughter and my husband told him firmly that boys don't hit girls, it's cowardly

The mother objected to this on the grounds that she doesn't impose gender roles on her son confused”

Well, i’d object to that as well. After i’d told my son off for hitting, of course.

I am not ok with it in sports. Women are physically different. But I do consider a trans person a woman and I don't feel like I am losing anything if I share a bathroom with a trans person.

Not their physical equals in a fighting / raw power sense at any rate.

Now I'm not saying that girls should be raised to be delicate flowers. I do kickboxing! But men have to realise that women are not their physical equals and that they can't use them as punching bags ffs.

I know a woman like this... she's 45 and a mother to a son she's raising to believe into all this cobblers

Her son hit my daughter and my husband told him firmly that boys don't hit girls, it's cowardly

The mother objected to this on the grounds that she doesn't impose gender roles on her son

Jacky, it’s not just young women. Have seen plenty of time middle age and older women say the same things.

I think it’s what some women have always done; align themselves with a dominant power in the hope that will mean safety. Women have always been set to police other women; it’s the patriarchy’s way of controlling women without having to get its hands dirty.

But I also think gas-lighting around the meaning of “woman”, and women’s inferior position in most societies, has blurred our ability to claim our womanhood.

Men have done such a good job of convincing women that their ersatz version of womanhood is the real deal, that women are convinced that male reality is their reality.

It makes my blood boil, too. Handmaidens of the patriarchy.

Does anyone else worry about admitting your thoughts to friends in real life, in case they all decide you're a transphobe and hate you?

I don't worry about it. If I lose a friend about it, then that's the friend's loss.

I think that a lot of them don't really understand what's happening

Yes, I totally agree. I only found out about all this from being on MN - if I hadn't been here, I doubt I would have noticed what was happening.

I think that a lot of them don't really understand what's happening.

Does anyone else worry about admitting your thoughts to friends in real life, in case they all decide you're a transphobe and hate you?

If they hate you cos you have different views on some subjects they were never a friend in the first place.

Friendship is about listening to and respecting someone. If you can talk about why it bothers you in a coherent fashion, even if they disagree they should respect you. They know you are good person.

Tbh I'm past caring if people are bothered over my opinions over it. It's affected me psychologically not being able to speak my reality and be honest about my experience, concerns and where its all headed. I reached the point where I have to be upfront and blunt about it. At least we all know where we stand then.

I am not ok with it. I don't want my little ones being told that women can have penises. Its NOT SAFE to confuse kids like this. And I don't want young girls to have to accept males into places where they are taking their clothes off or sleeping.. And I don't want to be called a terf by some trendy twat because I believe in biology and want single sex safe spaces for women. And I hate to see lesbians being chucked off Pride marches for being same SEX attracted & not wanting to have sex with blokes who imagine they are 'lesbians' And boys who like frocks or dolls or pink being made to think they are 'in the wrong body' or girls who hate bloody Barbie & climb trees like I did being told they can change 'gender'. Its so wrong

Does anyone else worry about admitting your thoughts to friends in real life, in case they all decide you're a transphobe and hate you?

There's only one of my friends who doesn't agree with me on the subject, but on the other hand she doesn't respond at all, or argue about it, just ignores posts that she obviously thinks are unkind. Apart from that every one of my friends is GC, and shocked that self-ID was introduced here (Ireland) without anyone noticing it happening.

I like Grinitch’s take, its Stockholm Syndrome.

Just a bit thick 🤷‍♀️

It's a good question.

Socialisation to be kind, fear of being seen as bigoted or discriminatory.

In reality I think most women are definitely not ok with any of it. All of the women I have spoken to in real life are very much not ok with it. In public they might not be confident enough to speak up.

I agree op. I thought a lot of battles were over compared to when I was young and angry and outspoken. I think I have to get back to all that when I see the amount of crazy woman hating shit that's going on. I feel not to be outspoken is to go along with terrible things by default.

We are socialised that way. We get angry about it, we are immediately criticised for being unreasonable and hysterical.

Stockholm Syndrome.