Would a move back to single sex education help our girls?

I went to an all-girls' school, and think it led to giving less of a shit about male opinions. Male opinions didn't figure anywhere in my life - apart from when I hit late teens, obviously, and was keen on being as attractive as possible.

Life is not single-sex

...and yet a lot us here on this forum spend quite a bit of time wanting to protect our single sex spaces; and think they are important and do matter.

I think what Pipandmum says about how disruptive boys can be in lessons is very pertinent.

While there may not necessarily be such a strong argument for totally sex segregated schools there may well be an argument for more sex segregated lessons within a mixed school.

PE lessons are currently sex segregated (for the most part). Perhaps this could be extended to a wider range of the curriculum?

What would things look like if all science classes were split into separate boys and girls classes for example?

I remember from when I was in secondary school (back in the late 1970s) that there were some lessons that were overwhelmingly split by sex - admittedly this was probably largely due to the gender expectations of the time - and there was real differences in the classroom experience in those subjects. All of that was in a normal mixed school.

Although, it must be said, that I defied the gender expectations of the time and went for the "boys" options.

I went to an ex- secondary modern and they were still very keen on providing practical lessons as well as academic lessons. I remember that one of our third year options (Year 9 in modern terminology) was a choice of typing or technical drawing.

Unsurprisingly, almost all the girls chose typing and all the boys chose technical drawing.

Just as an aside, can you even imagine a school offering "typing" or "technical drawing" as subjects in their own right in Year 9 nowadays?

I went to a single sex (girls') school and there are disadvantages for girls as well as advantages.

My experience was in the 1980s, so hopefully things have changed but our girls only school simply didn't offer subjects like woodwork and metalwork - no non academic traditional male subjects. Non academic subjects were very stereotypical indeed - home economics cookery and home economics textiles and the new shiny home economics childcare.

In lessons there was the advantage of not having boys impact classroom dynamics in puberty I assume. This may have benefited me - I went to a fully mixed primary and was loud and likely to raise my hand and have an opinion. Would that have disappeared at a mixed secondary? I have no way of knowing. What did remain the case was certain girls, me included, were quite loud and unintentionally dominating - other girls in the class were just as quiet and overlooked as at a mixed school.

Later only a tiny percentage of us took physics and we all took biology, about half of us took chemistry... Physics wasn't offered at A level because of insufficient interest...

I've taught at a mixed state school and in my subject girls dominated in top sets, but my academic arts subject is traditionally female dominated...

My personal disadvantage after leaving a single sex school was social - I grew up rurally with no brothers or boy cousins or local or family male friends - boys were an utter mystery to me. I was incredibly socially awkward for a while and then went a bit nuts, like the proverbial kid in a sweetshop... If my non school life had been less sheltered this would have been alleviated, but as it was I'm not sure a girl's school was best for my holistic education, though I was academically confident and got reasonable grades...

My teen DD is at a state mixed school and so far has both male and female friends (and brothers) but by fluke is in a female dominated class - obviously this is impossible to prearrange and pure luck, but a female friend class seems so far to offer the best of both worlds.

Gender stereotypes at school impact in girls schools too, but should obviously be stamped out in all institutional settings - unfortunately although things improved in the 1990s they are now going backwards in this area.

Some girls certainly do better in girls schools, I'm not sure it's a blanket solution, and certainly it depends very much on the school - just making it single sex certainly doesn't irradicate stereotypes.

I also prefer mix-ability classes rather than 'sets'. However, there are times when segregation is needed (privacy/extra lessons for SENs or whatever/language support, etc.)

Are you a teacher yourself? I was, and have to say I don't like mixed ability teaching at all. It is rare that all children get their needs met properly. The weaker ones don't get the attention they need; and the really bright ones don't get stretched anywhere near enough.

I really dislike the 'differentiation by resource' method of teaching; as the teacher ends up just being a class monitor rather than actively engaged.

That's just my view and experience anyway.

I've taught in both. I loved the all girls' school. Would love to send my dds to one but unlikely to happen where we live now, unless they turn out super intelligent and can get a scholarship to an indy. Would love if there were more options for single sex education.

Each child and each school varies, obviously.

By chance, DDs main out of school activity was mostly girls in her particular age group but yet somehow she arrived at uni perfectly able to form friendships with young men, afaik just treats them as, y'know, equal human beings and expects that to be reciprocated.

I would 100% send DD to a single sex school if there was the option. She struggles academically and is therefore in lower sets which are constantly disrupted by boys messing around.

Love all girls education. Dd3 is going in year 9.

I went to an all girls school at 13. It was very near an all boys school so there was some official, and a fair bit more unofficial - at breaks - mixing. But lessons without boys were so much better than they had been at the mixed school from 11-13, and there was a female atmosphere and camaradarie within the school that I would have hated to have missed.

There are a couple of single sex (for boys and for girls) schools near me.

Some years ago I remember people who had received single sex education saying they wanted their girls to go to a mixed sex school, so they would be used to and comfortable with the opposite sex.

My son went to a boy's school but girls were admitted in the Vl form, later on it went co-ed which seems to be the norm now.

It all depends on the individual child. There are girls who would hate to have schooling with loud boys who take the mick and cause embarrassment, for others it's water off a duck's back.

I went to a girls school for secondary, but we didn't operate in complete isolation. There was a partner boys school, and we did things like share drama productions and French exchange trips with them. A lot of 6th form classes were shared - half my A-level classes were at the boys school (there was a shuttle bus between the two schools, or a 20 minute walk.) I also saw boys at swimming club and other activities out of school, and on the school bus, and just around town. We'd known a lot of them from primary anyway. I still know some of them, even though we're now in our 40s and some of us have moved away.

Single sex education doesn't mean total isolation. I do think at secondary level, it's good for girls. There are so many reports about sexual assault and rape in schools - I don't want girls becoming inured to that, but to have their own space to focus on education. If they're sheltered from the worst of it, they might have more confidence to challenge it as young adults, rather than just accepting it.

There's also evidence that the numbers of girls taking STEM subjects is higher in all girls schools - it wasn't till I had left school that I really encountered attitudes about girls not being good at maths. There's a whole load of stereotyping I missed out on by not being in a mixed school in those teen years.

If I had a daughter, I would want her to have a single sex secondary education - though it depends on the details. No school will suit every child, and a good mixed school would usually be better than a poor single sex school. But all else being equal, I am in favour of single sex education at secondary level.

I used to think like that dey

Then I realised what It really meant was that basically they dont get used to being groped,

Everyone will have their own experience that will influence their opinion.
I went to a mixed school and was bullied, humiliated and, technically sexually assaulted I suppose, by the girls, but I know that's not the experience for most.

So you’d have mixed sex changing rooms too would you? Mixed sex hospital wards? I think that confuddles segregation with separation Jessica

But no. I don't think the answer to an increasingly weird world is to ghettoise ourselves or our children. So no, no segregation by sex, but yes to appropriate separation.

Progress 8 breakdown

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You say you arent aware of any issues.

Have you looked the progress I breakdown of the school?

Specifically where it lists the percentages of girls and boys achieving 5 or 4 and above at GCSE ?

Last time I checked the schools where I lived ( the non grammar co-ed ones)

What ever group did better. Did better fairly significantly so. The results were really uneven.

Which even In schools considered good is a worry as it does indicate an issue somewhere with how boys or girls are treated or taught

Might he worth a look to see if there's any surprises at the school you are talking about

Just read you know 3timeslucky. Totally agree. Life is not single-sex. You spend a large part of your childhood/teenage years socialising within a school that does not represent the society you are theoretically preparing to enter

Myself and then my daughter both attended single sex secondary schools. I had a brother and socialised with boys outside of school, and my daughter has two brothers. I'd say we both have always got on really well with men, and being at all girls schools made us both very independent and able to hold our own in mixed company.

I used to be a teacher myself - and have taught in both mixed and single sex - and I'd still say that I'd be happy for my granddaughter to attend an all girls secondary school. Most people attend mixed sex primaries.

I don't think attending a mixed sex school necessarily makes girls better able to deal with the males of the species, any more than going to an all girl school makes girls, necessarily, unable to relate to men and boys.

I didn’t really socialise with boys outside school much at all and was massively socially hampered by it. As soon as I could I got out of that artificial environment and, as I said, would never send a child there.

*where boys and girls are treated identically

I doubt that. Also don’t think just because you haven’t heard of any assaults, that it doesn’t happen.

We are lucky to have a healthy mix of single sex/mixed state schools locally. I wanted dd to go to a mixed school because I loathed my ss school but loved mixed 6th form. I now think that actually it wasn’t the ss, but the school.

Dd wanted to got to a single sex school not because it was ss, but because she liked it. It has been great for her academically and socially and a by-product is that she has avoided some of the hideous comments that friends Girls have been subjected to at a local mixed school. But again - that might just be THAT school.

Ds was adamant that he wanted to go to a mixed school, so he has. It has suited him, and I do think that having girls there has diluted s9me of the testosterone-y intensity of the local ss boys school. Which has suited him.

My dd is in a single sex school and I believe it was the best choice. She was in a mixed primary where she struggled and found it very difficult socially. She often described lessons where the boys dominated and I saw for myself at PE how in team games the boys just took over completely and the girls basically trailed around the pitch with no one passing to them. I'd recommend it to anyone. She's thriving and happy and I knew from very early on that this was the route we'd take for her.

Agree with Errol girls who attend single sexual schools are not cloistered away from boys.

They are educated separately.

Plenty of out of school stuff takes place in mixed groups.

I’m vehemently against single sex education. My children are at an excellent co-Ed school where boys and girls are treated identically and I am not aware of any bias against STEM subjects or belittling of girls choices. Neither have I heard of any sexual issues. For me the advantage of single sex schools is the organic opportunity to develop deep and lasting friendships with the opposite sex and to work with them and interact as equals and peers from day 1 in a way that doesn’t happen in a single sex school and is not the same in an external activity.

I taught at a girls' school for a few years. There was a benefit in STEM subjects - no "boys subject" ideas and there were more girls taking A level physics than A level biology.