Another perv in mixed sex changing village

No risk assessment — is that correct? That's where you could follow up.
What's the policy on risk assessment? Why was none carried out?

FOI to find out how many incidents occurred before changes were made to changing facilities?

My son will be safer with me than on his own. A child on their own is more vulnerable than an adult.

I am saying higher and more secure cubicles, more checking for cameras.

A family changing room is busier as altogether so less opportunity for anyone to be alone with someone who would harm them.

Surely you wouldn't want an 8 year old in a male changing room

There's a weird cognitive dissonance here: you don't want your son in a male changing room, because you feel he's not sage. BUT you think it's OK to have mixed sex changing rooms, because, gosh, with the men there we'll all be safer?

That is, men in their changing room are too dangerous for your boy to be near, but magically, men in mixed sex changing rooms aren't at all dangerous for women & girls.

It's all very well saying "Get rid of the perverts" - but we can't get rid of them until it's proven they've behaved illegally/criminally. And when does that ever happen ?(look at rape conviction stats etc)

So what you're saying is, let women and girls be sexually harassed or assaulted, THEN after they've been harassed or assaulted, get the men responsible and get rid of 'em. But women/girls will have been harassed and/or assaulted.

How about this? Sex segregation. Then we don't have to wait until AFTER women & girls are victimised to get rid of the "perverts" - they were never there in the first place.

LL83 In my experience of using both setups, mixed-sex facilities are not better for mothers of boys. Taking prepubescent boys of that age into the female changing rooms was never an issue where we live. All of the other mothers of boys of that age did the same and no one ever complained.

Our new swimming pool with its mixed sex facilities is actually worse for mothers with small children, because the cubicles are smaller, making it much harder to go in with your child. And you can't always find unoccupied cubicles next to each other. So there's lots of blokes around, including weirdos who like to leave their cubicle doors open, who really stare at you and your child, follow you into the same row and so on. To make sure I didn't have to leave my youngest son out of my sight, I used to stand him on the bench in the cubicle. That way I could still move and help him dress. Never had that problem in the old swimming room that was female-only.

I favour a system of single-sex changing rooms complemented by a family changing room. That way everyone would be able to choose what they are most comfortable with.

But the perverts could still enter the family changing room and install cameras.

Answer is better security, more vigilance and catch the people doing this. Glad we agree boys must also be protected.

The fact that women are less vulnerable than children does not make it OK to send the predators our way. As I said above, we need to be campaigning for a mix of provision to ensure that all groups, whether women, children or families, are safe and have privacy.

@GCAcademic yes women are less vulnerable than children. I want my son with me. Surely you wouldn't want an 8 year old in a male changing room alone you must have male children in your friends/family. Also when single sex cubicles are less common in family changing room everyone is in cubicle.

How are they perving generally? Cracks in walls? Peering over cubicles? Surely these issues can be resolved. Also more staff in changing rooms.

Does anyone notice mixed "family" changing is more common in swimming where there are children than in gym when all adults? It is not safe for children to change alone.

Agree perverts have to be stopped but not by minimising the risk to one group and leaving another one much more vulnerable.

I hate all the reassurance trotted out about how nobody should feel uncomfortable and you can contact a staff member if feeling uncomfortable and alarms being available and blah blah blah. It changes the whole feeling of a place, how on earth can they not see that?

TBH I thought that describing the two incidents that made you feel uncomfortable weakened your argument, and you'd have been better off not saying anything. Most people reading about the boy would automatically sympathise with him, and the description of the man making a flirty remark can be easily dismissed. The dangers are very real, and neither of those occurrences give a real feeling of the fear that women have re sharing spaces.

And I am not comfortable sending my son into Male changing at 8 years old when there are so many predators around.

So instead you want the predators to be where the women and girls are, instead?

The solution here is a mixture of sex-segregated and family changing cubicles.

Perverts are the problem not mixed changing

Which is why there’s been a long tradition of single sex segregated facilities.

Perverts are the problem not mixed changing.

Mixed changing is practical for families. And I am not comfortable sending my son into Male changing at 8 years old when there are so many predators around.

Here’s another story. For something that never happens, it seems to happen a lot:

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/17722762.surrey-police-launch-investigation-after-girls-filmed-in-rainbow-leisure-centre-changing-room/?ref=twtrec

But Grimbles you must be mistaken. This Never Happens

I've contacted a local feminist group to see if they are interested in campaigning for single sex facilities. It is certainly a subject I want to challenge.

Hey @Gingerkittykat I sent you a PM.

There was a man at our local pool today that decided to get undressed in full view of everyone( mainly kids) waiting for the session to start.

The same man then had to be asked to leave the section of pool cordoned off for the inflatables session, which was clearly signed as adults could only go in if accompanying a child.

The great shame of all of this is that many women will stop using such facilities. If there is no alternative, we will eventually feel excluded from many facilities that we previously enjoyed. This just doesn't seem right to me.

I don't understand the sentence; if he filmed under a cubicle partition, how is that only voyeurism?
He manufactured pornography without consent. What is he doing with it? Does he send it to friends? Does he have online accounts and has he ever uploaded any of his films?

@Gingerkittykat

Forward the correspondence to the council CEO and cc the local government ombudsman. Particularly ask for information about the lack of risk assessment and problems with the public sector duty under the equality act - race, religion and sex are the three top ones.

Thanks Kitty for chasing up these things.

Goose:
I don't know what is available in terms of stats to compared the mixed areas with. But it's very difficult to make an argument without some numbers, it's easy for it to be fobbed off.

Please do not be so disingenuous.

The stats are available. Women and girls' safety is jeopardised when men are given access to what have formerly been female single-sex spaces.

Female single-sex spaces exist for a purpose. They exist for lots of purposes and reasons.

Because men are not women.

The volume of news and complaints/responses on this will fly under the radar, sadly. I wonder if there's scope for a database or similar? A means of gathering all of this stuff in one place, possibly organised by geography - an interactive map or something. If I had the skills and know how I'd build one, but I don't.