Latest Caster Semenya Race

If you want cheering up - just have a read of the WISE twitter feed that JackyHolyoake posted upthread. It's all about .... Women and sport & Exercise - so many fascinating topics. Looks brilliant (and much needed).

twitter.com/wiseconf

I think CS has shot CS in the foot there. The open admission that CS could win any sport event CS entered - i.e. an admission that their genetic/hormonal make up gives them an advantage over XX women no matter what event. As the condition has been known for a decade to CS it is plain that CS sees no problem with exploiting the fact to the disadvantage of XX born women.

It was one thing when CS was thought to be a 'tomboy' that liked traditionally boyish things (as many girls do), quite another to either blindly (or knowingly, which is worse) carry on with fingers in ears pretending they are just a good athlete. It is fraudulent.

similaminimer
Have you watched any of the interviews that CS has done?
CS is very open about the fact that CS's childhood and adolescence was spent hanging out with the boys.

"do not have the sporting advantage of testosterone."

If this was the case, then CS would not be winning anything.
It is obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of physiology, that CS has a body shape, musculature more resembling that of a male athlete than a female athlete.
If there really was no advantage, then CS would not have this distinctive musculature.

I don't think it quite as simple as that. People born with complete androgen insensitivity, with XY chromosomes, do not have the sporting advantage of testosterone. Their bodies are blind to the testosterone. There are degrees of androgen insensitivity with greater or lesser degrees of androgenisation. There is no doubt that CS was 'a girl' when she was a child, with the societal disadvantages that confers.

Caster Semenya is not and has never been a cheat.

But could reasonably be described as a fraud.

"There is not a single 46XY DSD that doesn’t have an advantage over women."

Exactly this, and there were three of them occupying the medal positions in the women's 800 metres at Rio.
Here is an article from back in 2014, which talks about XY athletes competing against women, specifically 17 year old Margaret Wambui (one of the Rio medallists) winning the World Junior women's 800 metres championships.

www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/brief-history-intersex-athletes-sport/

"Highlight the part that states specifially that CS is 46 XY DSD!"

I think that we have been through this manytimes since the IAAF decided that CS could not compete in her usual events.

www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/what-no-one-is-telling-you-about-caster-semenya-she-has-xy-chromosomes/

"The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes."

www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdf

It's so unsportsmanlike for CS to continue to compete with women, now it is clear CS is a male who has been virilized by going through a male puberty.

As for evidence of advantage - use your eyes!

Jessica Yes! But it has not been known what advantage intersex variations have.

It has always been known what advantage male athletes have.

DSD or not, Caster has always been male.

Ta Jackie for the link

Vilification? Yes, for knowing you are Male and pursuing this anyway, for making several misogynistic comments, for lying about being socialised as female, for making this about race.

Intersex athletes are still, mostly, either male or female. Allowing male intersex athletes to choose to compete as female until there’s science to prove they have an advantage, is bullshit. That’s politics. The onus should of been on those males wanting to race as females, to prove there was no advantage. We already know XY has advantage, that’s not new. The right thing to do would be to maintain XY and XX categories until there was proof that there were no advantages.

You’re just rude. If that were true I'd have phrased my last post rathe differently.

Jessica Yes! But it has not been known what advantage intersex variations have. Nobody had done any science on intersex athletes as few of them existed until a decade or so ago. It is not robust enough to say 'it's obvious' for it to be a truth, a known fact. Research had to be done. Lots of it now has been done and, after CAS return to court, it will be much more unassailable than previously.

No thoughts, feelings, assumptions, what ifs, doubts that cannot be disporven by hard, cold scientific facts - or scheduled for further investigation.

I am sorry you think that actually knowing something is weird!

From the Women in Sport and Exercise conference today:

twitter.com/wiseconf/status/1138759518505115649

To me she is a cheat pure and simple

But, if that's the tack you want to take I will leave you to it! Your own echo chamber

Well nobody likes rudeness and sarcasm when valid points you’re ignoring are being raised. You could make your point in this ‘echo chamber’ without being stupid and goady about it. Why do it? Does it make you feel clever? Then when others point it out you just call this an echo chamber? You’re just rude. Nothing to do with not liking other opinions.

I think it’s weird you keep banging on about the science, waiting for it blah blah It’s been known for some time now that XY has an advantage in sports over XX.

Tinkly laughs??? Never been accused of that before. If you mean the ha ha ha! I was being sarcastic, benused even at your dismissal of a Supereme Federal Court!

I do like a good exclamation mark though!

But, if that's the tack you want to take I will leave you to it! Your own echo chamber...

If an XY invididual who has gone through puberty competes against XX individuals, they are probably going to win any event they choose.

Exactly. It's nonsense that this has been allowed to continue

Semenya and coach and others have known about all this since 2009:

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/30/eitheror