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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Owen Jones looking to take on Janice Turner

88 replies

Freespeecher · 09/06/2019 19:12

Janice Turner isn't happy with Munroe Bergdorf working with Childline; Jones goes in to bat (not baseball bat. yet) for Bergdorf.

Seems to be accusing her of, amongst other things, misogyny by association. Which is interesting.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1137772296414867458

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Haworthia · 10/06/2019 11:25

So, what I don’t understand is... what WAS the affiliation because Munroe and the NSPCC?

Whatisthisfuckery · 10/06/2019 11:19

OJ is so addled he doesn’t know what he thinks. He’s so consumed by misogyny that he probably doesn’t care about the odd gay bashing, as long as it isn’t him. He’s an odious little fuckwit and I just can’t resist the opportunity to poke the little shit on twitter. Hopefully he’ll block me so I don’t have to read his sanctimonious ejaculations anymore.

BatShite · 10/06/2019 11:16

Seems J is willing to overlook actual homophobia (Cannot really be denied) along with a hell of a lot of other issues, in order to be on the 'right side of history'. Hes really deluded himself on this issue huh..

ScrimshawTheSecond · 10/06/2019 11:13

So, MB wasn't 'dropped' because MB wasn't on board in any real way in the first place.

Inventing a role for oneself and then crying foul because one has been disallowed from taking up that imaginary role.

CharlieParley · 10/06/2019 11:00

GirlDownUnder This makes it much worse. Worse than it appeared at first.

After a string of failed appointments, due to previous public utterances or actions, many others seeking a public role would be desperate, too, to be held in high regard. Bergdorf had a chance here to support one of the UK's most prominent child safeguarding charities. All that was required was to keep the ego in check, see it through and prove one's reliability to the charity which could have led to a supportive role that was much more in the public eye.

Bergdorf is not the first and won't be the last of those striving for public roles to be felled by their own checkered history (cf political candidates and decades-past drug use or writers with damaging tweets from five years ago). But right about now an expert in PR may well be a recommended course of action for Bergdorf. Of course, as the end goal is queering society, I'm not sure that would help. Society is not ready to give up on safeguarding our children and no amount of PR and marketing expertise can make that palatable.

As for the porn model comment.

Yes, it is more significant that Bergdorf has repeatedly and publicly demonstrated complete and utter ignorance on the principles of safeguarding (I refer you back to LangCleg's excellent post) and the specifics of safeguarding (cf the lack of understanding that a ten-year-old boy performing sexually suggestive dance moves in sexualized outfits in sex-on-premises night clubs is a safeguarding failure of the highest order) and the necessity of safeguarding (Bergdorf's stated belief that this is a harmless act of self-realisation for the child shows complete ignorance also of how fragile children's minds are, how highly suggestible, how damaging it is to immerse a child in these kinds of adult spheres of life. If you do not recognise when a child is exploited for adult entertainment, I would suggest you should stay as far away from a safeguarding organisation as possible.)

But I agree with Janice that posing for an admittedly soft porn mag is hugely relevant for a person's suitability in being involved with a safeguarding charity, eespecially when that person has paid thousands of pounds to look like a pornified version of a woman and especially when the person in question has also demonstrated all of the above.

Yes, others have posed for porn mags and been involved with safeguarding campaigns, but AFAIK none of them were openly dismissive of safeguarding failures and therefore of the wellbeing of children and none of them had demonstrated such a comprehensive lack of understanding of the safeguarding of children.

And soft porn is still porn btw.

RoyalCorgi · 10/06/2019 09:59

I think the porn comment was entirely reasonable. I don't suppose Janice Turner was aware that Melinda Messenger had done work for Childline - why would she be? The choice of someone like Messenger is also pretty inappropriate, I'd have thought.

As for Owen, well, he's like a male version of Violet Elizabeth Bott, isn't he? He's going to thcweam and thcweam and thcweam until he's thick.

Justhadathought · 10/06/2019 09:54

I worship JT, but think she has slightly wrong footed herself by majoring on MB's 'porn' life, rather than on their disregard for normal safeguarding and their homophobia and cruel comments regarding infertility

I agree. that's the problem with twitter. Too influenced by impulse and not enough consideration.

Bluestitch · 10/06/2019 09:03

OJ is such a hypocrite. Ranting about the NSPCC and listing alternative charities for kids. Did he rant at Labour and list alternative political parties to vote for when they axed MB? Doubt it.

GirlDownUnder · 10/06/2019 08:50

Something I posted on the other MB thread:

It looks like NSPCC cut Monroe for reasons other than trans status, porn, or past comments:

https://mobile.twitter.com/warcholmondley/status/1137788797381500928

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/warcholmondley" target="_blank">Miles Cholmondley-Warnerr*

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/warcholmondley" target="_blank">@warcholmondley Replying to <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84" target="_blank">@OwenJones84

"<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84" target="_blank">@owenjones84 has outdone himself with this chippy rant. Monroe Bergdorf exploited a role with <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/NSPCC" target="_blank">NSPCCC* for publicity, overstated it & broke agreements celebrities make with the Charity. It is right & no wonder that she has been cut away. For narcissism not flashing her tits"

Owen Jones looking to take on Janice Turner
RoyalCorgi · 10/06/2019 08:17

Janice wrote that Munroe was a 'porn model' - and Munroe is, because Munroe posed for Playboy, which is obvs classed as a porn mag.

This is true. Truth is an absolute defence in libel cases. Of course, even if it wasn't true, for the case to work, Munroe would have to argue that a porn star was a bad thing to be, and that if people were wrongly led to believe that Munroe was a porn star, then that would damage Munroe's reputation in the eyes of most right-thinking people.

So, think this through. Would Munroe really want to argue publicly - given the kind of people they hang around with - that being a porn star was a bad thing to be? They're supposed to be all in favour of sex workers, right? So accusing someone of being a porn star, by their own lights, is no worse than accusing someone of being , say, a teacher or a shop assistant.

Secondly, the tweet would have to damage Munroe's reputation. Given all we know about Munroe's past words and activities, does Munroe have a reputation to damage? Imagine one of the Times's lawyers on the case. It wouldn't take them very long to find information that would make Munroe's claim to have a reputation worth damaging look very foolish indeed. If Munroe fancies their chances in court being questioned by one of the top defamation lawyers in the country, well good luck to them. I'll be buying in the popcorn.

PlatypusPie · 09/06/2019 23:31

*Can anyone on twitter put him right?

I think this is probably a far more existential question than you realise*

I love this Grin

The OJ was holding forth on a TV panel around the European Election - my DH watched for a while and then asked ‘Who is the twerp and what is he adding to the conversation? ‘

I’ve just told DH that The Twerp is taking on one of favourite journalists and have had to go and rescue his eyeballs which have just rolled right out of his head,

WeWantJustice · 09/06/2019 23:11

Oh she will hand him his arse.

#TeamJanice

ZebrasAreBras · 09/06/2019 23:02

I think OJ has extremely cynically gone after JT because she’s probably being advised by lawyers to keep quiet right now - if MB is serious about lawyers over the ‘porn star’ tag then JT won’t be able to do much at the moment.

I sincerely doubt it. Janice wrote that Munroe was a 'porn model' - and Munroe is, because Munroe posed for Playboy, which is obvs classed as a porn mag. Janice has done nothing wrong, she has spoken the truth. Janice has written about how she is anti-porn in the past.

Munroe is utterly unsuitable as any sort of Ambassador or influencer (god I hate that word) for a children's charity.

Outofinspiration · 09/06/2019 22:58

Even without the 'porn' element of this and the fact that Munroe promotes womanhood as nothing more than tits and ass, Munroe has still:

Initiated private contact with young teenagers in a 'big sister' capacity. See LangClegs excellent post above for why this is a problem.

Publicly said that they didn't see any problem with an 11 year old boy dancing for money in an adult gay nightclub, a nightclub the clientele themselves have said is a place 'to party and to fuck'.

These two things alone should mean Munroe is off the table completely. At the absolute best, Munroe has shown that they have a total lack of understanding of the basics of safeguarding.

Cismyfatarse1 · 09/06/2019 22:58

Managed it. Hilarious.

Owen Jones looking to take on Janice Turner
Cismyfatarse1 · 09/06/2019 22:55

Look at Andrew Gilligan's tweet about the BBC coverage of this. Can't screenshot but brilliant.

LangCleg · 09/06/2019 22:51

To: the Woke

A primer on the first rule of safeguarding.

Sometimes, adults invite private contact with vulnerable children or offer to keep secrets for them. When this happens we call it a red flag.

At worst: this person is attempting to groom those vulnerable children in order to abuse them.

At best: this person has no ill intent themselves but is still normalising private contact with adults in the mind of the child, which makes the child easier to groom and abuse by those who do have ill intent.

If you want to protect children who question their gender - and all the other children, if you can manage to care about them too - then you never break this cardinal first rule of safeguarding. You never invite private contact with a child. You never offer to keep its secrets. Because you don't break down children's boundaries: you build them up.

Any adult who does this is therefore unsuited to any role in child protection or to have any connection with child protection organisations.

Any person who defends another person doing this is therefore unsuited to ever speak of what or what is not appropriate in child protection matters.

In short: STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR CHILDREN UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SAFEGUARDING IS.

Kilbranan · 09/06/2019 22:27

Yes the insidious addition of Q to the alphabet soup in relation to children needs to be highlighted as it’s an extension of the mission creep aiming to sexualise children

DrG · 09/06/2019 21:49

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Birdsfoottrefoil · 09/06/2019 21:46

What has the Q got to do with children?

From reading another thread it seems Q has quite a lot to do with children...

NoSquirrels · 09/06/2019 21:41

I think OJ has extremely cynically gone after JT because she’s probably being advised by lawyers to keep quiet right now - if MB is serious about lawyers over the ‘porn star’ tag then JT won’t be able to do much at the moment.

DrG · 09/06/2019 21:40

Owen Jones is literally shaking with rage ‘cause most adults recognise the problem with having an NSPCC spokesperson on record saying that the sexual exploitation of Desmond the Drag Child who dances in sexually provocative clothing for money in an adult gay bar, is a positive thing..

Looking forward to his next tweet where he tells us about his tears over sexual frustrations of MAPs..

S1naidSucks · 09/06/2019 21:37

That’s just typical of the misogynistic, TRA pushing agenda of the BBC.

iismum · 09/06/2019 21:35

I've just read a BBC article about the NSPCC cutting ties with MB and it says this is because of the huge number of transphobic letters they received, and much lower down mentioned that MB posed for playboy (or similar, can't remember the exact details). But no mention at all of the long track record of misogyny and homophobia. Anyone reading that article would think the NSPCC was weakly deferring to bigoted people. It makes me so angry.

S1naidSucks · 09/06/2019 21:25

Plugs charger into iPad, pours large glass of wine and settles down. Bliss. 🍷 😃