Heartbreaking - how many female babies have never made it to womanhood

Oh those poor men - if only they had a woman to cook and clean for them, and instead they're having to make their elderly mums do it instead, and buy women from abroad. My heart fucking bleeds for them.

Extremely disturbing thread hiding an anti-choice argument in the guise of a feminist one. Yuck.

Sea lion killed the thread.

DpWm, I really don't know where you are getting your data from. The estimates we have calculate based on sex imbalances. 128 countries have more women than men. Would you think it is OK to presume that the difference are 'missing boys'?

I don't know what gender identity has to do with this nor the 'Anglosphere' (where motivations for abortion where permitted are not scrutinized).

If you see femicide equivalent to termination of pregnancy for whatever reason, you cannot be pro-choice. Many humans are 'missing' through termination of pregnancies. Can you terminate because of disability or does it make you an ableist? Can you terminate because you have no resources to bring up a child? Or just because you don't want a pregnancy? Why are Indian women held to a different standard? And they are. The laws in India prevent you from knowing about this. Many can escape the rules, most can't.

Pro-choice is pro-choice. It doesn't mean you automatically support women aborting fetuses or killing born babies for being female, when the woman clearly has little to no choice in the matter herself.
It'd be better for the woman to have a true choice.

Wtf is going on on this thread....

I get the gender ideology comment.

Female babies or fetuses are killed for the simple fact they are female in countries all over the world, something like 100 million females are missing on earth because of this.
Men are complaining they can't get married. They have to import wives from poor villages.

In the Anglosphere we're expected to believe sex is a spectrum and anyone can identify as female or male. Gender ideology is telling us your sex is a "personal feeling" Tell that to the women killing their female babies, who are pregnant because they are female. Tell that to the babies born female that never got a chance to live.
Honestly. It's obvious bollocks, everyone knows it, and there is a relevance.

Anyway.

Yes the perpetrators of this act of femicide is committed by women in the same way FGM is committed by women, but it's done for male approval. It's perpetrated out of a lack of choice, rather than an active decision.

They finally see the value of women - the hard way.

www.marahvistendahl.com/unnatural-selection

Everyone should check out this amazing book on the effects of Sex selective abortion and female infanticide.

Stepping away and no longer engaging.

Male violence against women is heartbreaking. However, I don't know where you are getting your data about men killing baby girls or anything else.

Where are the 'missing boys' of Russia? I have no doubt about the damage done to women in India and elsewhere. Picking up infanticide with the data we know is just not proving any point. If anything, discrediting it.

As I said, knowing the country pretty well, it is more than plausible that the sex imbalance is related to selection of sex and termination of pregnancies. I still don't see how forcing woman to deliver and preventing them to access abortion is going to change the discrimination and abuse they are suffering.

Sex selection happens in this country. You are told privately what sex your child is.

Heartbreaking how many men kill adult human females.

Heartbreaking how many men kill female babies.

Heartbreaking how may men insist that their partners/wives abort the female child they are carrying.

If you look into the data it is really interesting. The countries in Europe with less women than men are (order from those who have more women to less):

Malta
Icelnad
Luxembourg
Norway
Albania

I don't think sex selection is happening in Norway, although it looks like more boys than girls are born www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/347081?_ts=1632b8bcba0

Nobody is denying sex-selection is happening QuentinWinters. It is very plausible in the given circumstances. Like it is very plausible that the massive sex imbalance in Qatar is due to male migrant workers.

I am saying that 1) sex selection is not infanticide; 2) you cannot resolve patriarchy controlling women's bodies.

A world map about the differences is here: statisticstimes.com/demographics/countries-by-sex-ratio.php

I'm a bit confused. If these countries aren't killing female babies, or practicing sex selection of embryos or aborting female feotuses, how is it that they have such a gender imbalance?

I do feel bad for the men in this case, it must be awful to know you have little chance of a family. But it is a consequence of the patriarchy and the fact females aren't valued as people.

Of course the decision is not made in a vacuum: the societal and cultural structure puts a massive burden on women without resources if they have girls. This is not resolved by controlling their bodies and forcing them to continue the pregnancy.

RickAstleyGaveMeUp, I have had a look into the links (have not watched the documentary). Again, the figures conflate selective abortion, better treatment of boys and other issues as trafficking with infanticide/particularly female infanticide. There is only one set of relevant data from 1995.

The only reliable data relates to imbalance in gender numbers: the 'missing girls'. How many disable adults are missing in the UK because a pregnancy was terminated? These figures are misleading and I don't think you should conflate infanticide with termination of pregnancy. It portrays other cultures as uncivilised in the worst possible way. It portrays other women as monsters actually (majority of infanticides are perpetrated by women according to the data we know).

I am VERY uncomfortable with terminating a pregnancy based on sex. It is however possible to do so in the UK. If a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy because she wants to make that decision about her body, the reason does not matter (unless you are against the decision itself in every circumstance). If you believe you are killing a baby, I totally get why someone is anti-abortion. The reason, again, does not matter.

And women are under real pressure in India (I know much less about China) not to terminate a pregnancy precisely because of the ban on sex-selection.

I see what cameleon means, re abortion and pro-choice. It’s a complex ethical area. I’m a pro-choice feminist, supportive of women’s right to choose for any reason. So, in theory, I should be supportive of the right to choose to end a pregnancy on the basis of foetal sex. However, the fact that pregnancy isn’t wanted because the foetus is female is a very uncomfortable thought indeed which obviously doesn’t sit well with my feminist principles and beenandgone, you are right, the pregnant woman is not making her decision in a vacuum.

I agree re that article being very ‘poor men’ though. Toxic masculinity ruins it for everyone, again.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20131212082637/blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/01/16/it%E2%80%99s-a-girl-the-three-deadliest-words-in-the-world/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Independent article

link to documentary about the issue

Article by a Canadian charity

Study showing how deaths among female infants are higher in India than amongst males, which is the opposite to every other country in the world

And I would not speculate about numbers of 'stillborn' or 'abandoned'. As far as I know, there are no reasons/evidence to affirm that right now, there is a high proportion of female infanticide in India or anywhere else. Show me the data otherwise. Conflating selective abortion or selecting sex before implantation with killing babies is really bad form.

sex of the foetus among other typos.

To me is an anti-choice argument. The reason should not matter at all if you are pro-choice. The prevalent discourse in India is of incredible pressure not to have an abortion. It leads to doctor not performing abortions because they may act against the law if this is perceived as 'sex-selection'. This is well-documented. The pressures to have an unwanted child increase immensely.

You cannot argue that it is OK to have an abortion in case of disability or because you cannot afford a child and make an exception based on foetus of the sex.
I totally understand people who are against abortion completely. Not this choose and pick depending on ability/sex/age/income/etc.

I really cannot find the link with trans issues. There are many interesting points involved in the gender imbalance in many countries (sometimes exacerbated by polygamy).

This is not 'females being killed' kind of problem. It dehumanises others as savages who go around killing baby girls by the millions. Infanticide, in many countries where data exist is mainly perpetrated by women. Must actually be the only violent crime where this is true. But this is not the point under discussion (or I don't think so; if anybody has other data I am happy to be better educated)

Given cultural pressures, the choice to abort a female foetus can hardly be considered a free choice in huge numbers of circumstances. And poor women are likely to use old wives tales to guess at the sex of their baby and have back street abortions at great physical risk. If a female baby gets through, how many of these are 'stillborn'? Or abandoned? To say that the widespread aborting of female foetuses is wrong is not an anti-choice argument.