Imperial College Womb Transplant Survey Redux

Oh, and on the point of having a hysterectomy while you're alive to avoid any risk of your womb being taken after death - the author of that very interesting blog post says there are now believed to be risks to future health from hysterectomy that have only recently been recognised. She mentions cognitive decline, but I didn't follow that link.

She doesn't spell it out, but she would seem to be suggesting that doctors would do better to be researching better ways to treat the problems that lead to a hysterectomy at the moment - ways that leave the uterus in situ wherever possible. I don't find this difficult to accept. The body is so complex that there must be all kinds of unintended consequences when one part is removed.

I'd like to see our government or ideally the UN/WHO/some other worldwide body taking a lead here and putting a firm stop on the idea of womb transplants into male bodies. I'd actually ban them full stop. IIUC, human cloning is banned worldwide. This seems to me to be similar, ethically.

I believe it's been confirmed that the organ donor register doesn't currently cover donation of any part of the reproductive system, female or male. Long may this continue.

Here we are, over 7 billion humans on the planet and rising fast. We are overpopulated and this threatens not just our own species but all the others as well. Our own actions are causing climate change, which is another huge threat to life on Earth. Billions of our species don't have enough to eat. In poor countries children die from preventable diseases because they don't have enough to eat, they don't get vaccinated, they don't get good medical care.

Millions of women every year go through pregnancy and birth without decent medical care. As a consequence many mothers and babies die or are left with lifelong medical problems from preventable cause. Millions and millions of other women suffer from problems like endometriosis which are not well understood because they've never been a priority for research. Women reporting chronic pain and other problems don't get taken seriously and don't get effective treatment.

And here we have a group of 'scientists' deciding that this thought experiment of trying to make males pregnant is the most interesting topic they could work on. I despair.

This makes me want to take my name off the organ donor register, the idea of my womb being implanted into a bloke after I'm dead makes me feel ill. (I suppose I could get around that by having a hysterectomy while I'm still alive, and then the rest of me could be made use of.) Either way, it's deeply disturbing, and it's disturbing that I'm thinking of ways to get around it, if it ever comes to this dystopian nightmare.

I am so confused about the reason why people need to transition. On the other hand we are told that biological sex does not exist or is a spectrum and that gender identity is the really innate characteristic which should be honoured. That approach demands that women shut up about their bodies because bodies have nothing to do with being a woman.

Then we have this trend of implanting wombs in male bodies and supporting male breastfeeding.

YY nepeta. Also I think Jones et al say in the participant information for the Imperial study obtained by the OP @IAmDavidLewis that they intended to give MTF trans patients female hormones cyclically so that they can "experience periods" suggesting that this would be somehow desirable.

I take it BD Jones of BD Jones et al 2018 is the same Dr B Jones of the email to Posie from 2019 swearing blind no-one was intending to transplant uteri into male bodies.

That's my assumption too.

I am so confused about the reason why people need to transition. On the other hand we are told that biological sex does not exist or is a spectrum and that gender identity is the really innate characteristic which should be honoured. That approach demands that women shut up about their bodies because bodies have nothing to do with being a woman.

Then we have this trend of implanting wombs in male bodies and supporting male breastfeeding.

Very good article.

A reminder of how far the Overton Window has shifted.

That's a brilliant, terrifying and horrific article.

I take it BD Jones of BD Jones et al 2018 is the same Dr B Jones of the email to Posie from 2019 swearing blind no-one was intending to transplant uteri into male bodies.

Bumping to post this excellent and chilling piece (though posters on MN, as often, were aware of this much earlier).

www.nataleo.com/blog2/2020/11/23/why-you-should-not-put-wombs-in-males

is it proposed that they father their own child? are they needing to have removed the peen before they get the womb?

Yes, and testicles, everything except that "it may not be necessary to remove the prostate".

And yes it is proposed that they both father and gestate their own child. With a donor egg from an actual woman, natch.

The reply - effectively, oh no not MEN, dear - will elide into: but yes, transwomen of COURSE because AUFI . Amirite?

is it proposed that they father their own child? are they needing to have removed the peen before they get the womb?

I wonder if the TRAs believe that a cloned transwoman would also be a transwoman. And then I think I may as well sit and debate whether sand or cardboard is easier to turn into gold

Yeh, I'll believe it when I fucking see it. Woke cookies or not, the NHS doesn't have the money for this even if it wanted to.

What's to stop someone paying privately?

They would however have to use a donor egg.

They’ll want the nucleus of the fertilised egg replacing with the nucleus of one of their own somatic cells, though. This is why they keep banging on about the ‘mouse with two fathers’ experiment.

Anything short of genetic immortality is transphobic.

I saw this and thought it was hoax. It's not a hoax at all is it? It's horrific, I feel sick. I'm not sure what's worse - this or the Handmaids Tale. The dystopian SciFi for this - harvesting uteruses from women so that the men can give birth - is so obscene it hasn't even been written yet.

The ethics for IVF, embryology etc, are so carefully monitored normally - how is this happening? These people are crazy Dr Frankensteins.

I thought it was a hoax on the last thread. Now I am sure it isn't.

Unless they get a GRC.

WRT the equality act stuff: I thought sex discrimination for tw was measured against the treatment of their natal sex, as in males are not entitled to womb implants so therefore it wouldn’t be discrimination. There’s nothing to measure gender reassignment against otherwise.

Are they also researching functioning bollocks for trans men? bollocks being the operative word

Hopefully Posie can get a straight answer out of Ben. Funny that he's stopped replying...

So women can't get IVF if they even have a stepchild living with them, but men can get a womb transplant even if they're fertile and have a fertile female partner and could conceive naturally? Yeh, I'll believe it when I fucking see it. Woke cookies or not, the NHS doesn't have the money for this even if it wanted to. It's an Overton window move - never gonna happen.

Buuuuut the legal bit is interesting. It's currently only legal to implant embryos in a woman and as I understand it this is holding back research into, for example, external "wombs". I wonder how far the word "woman" would need to be twisted to get around that...

This is so obscene I want to vomit.