Boundaries and Allies

Hmmnnn Orchid I googled K Harrison and at least it's dressage, which isn't something that would be different for men and women, like running or weight-lifting. Though by the same token there would be nothing to stop them joining a male team.

And I never quietly 'accommodated' TW in female space

I have seen 'old school transexuals' in women's toilets before. I didn't say anything or react in any way. Not because they passed. Not because I was accepting. Not because I was "quietly" accomodating. .

But because I was flustered to see a man in the toilets. I was scared to see a man in the toilets. I didn't want to "make a fuss". I wanted to be "nice". All of these things at once. And all of these things don't add up to acceptance.

I think many transwomen make this mistake.

Thanks for all the 'not as harsh as I thought' comments .
I like to think I'm 'unyielding' when it comes to any demands to cede the rights of little girls and big ones, to men.
It's easier to live with!

But thanks so much for saying it - the posts saying 'I've changed my mind' are some of the most powerful posts on the internet.

That DH in the TES thread actually gave me goosebumps as it unfolded - as someone put it, the scales fell from my scales. Suddenly I saw all of it for what it really was.

I used to think you were harsh too Barracker. Now I get it, and in my life where I've been having conversations about it,some people think I'm harsh too. But I keep at it because oh lord when they get it it's like the Matrix.

TinselAngel

You are a one woman saviour. Your compassion on that thread is only matched by your steely determination to adhere to reality.

This.

Barracker, in making that decision to speak up despite the personal cost, your writing has spurred very many more women to raise their voices on this subject, as this thread attests.

There are so many amazing, erudite, committed women in this fight. We must hand the megaphone to them at every single opportunity, not to the men who seek to speak for us.

Like justanother I'm working on my female socialisation also and agree with muststop - I previously thought Barracker was harsh now I'm just so thankful for the calling of it how it is. I still have to check myself sometimes, it's so ingrained.

I can't remember the MN who posted this but it was asking how we are meant to know the difference between the nice, kind trans who just want to pee and the man who is going to hurt us - with just a split second glance at the toilet door.

"There's no time for a DBS check".

If you let one in, you let them all in, as has been proven and this is where we are now. No one actually fucking asked us and now we are telling them to fuck off out of our spaces we can't say 'oh but the nice ones can stay'. If they were nice they would back us up and go pee with the men and get the men to accept them in their loos!

Are we now being expected to teach our daughters how to tell which ones are safe? Are we to tell them that they are not important and their boundaries don't matter?

Thank you Muststopfaffing.
You don't know how much I appreciate that.
Of course I'm aware that a woman bluntly saying no, and God forbid, prioritising female children over grown men, especially when so many women feel obligated to those men because they threw us some crumbs they didn't fancy, is shocking.

If you met me in real life you'd possibly be surprised. I don't enjoy conflict. I blush if I accidentally commit a faux pas.
I stay awake worrying about having said the wrong thing, or hurt someone's feelings, or wondering if someone dislikes me.
I've been brilliantly socialised to apologise when someone treads on my toes.

It's easy to imagine that it's a certain objectionable breed of nasty women that can't even be grateful to the poor old vulnerable transexuals.

The truth is, I've decided to tolerate any degree of discomfort, hatred or disapproval to do what seems right to me.
But I've never been an 'I don't give a shit what they say about me' kind of person. Posie Parker has some gene I don't.
I wish I had it.

There's a cost to making oneself profoundly unpopular, yet it's a price some of us have chosen to pay. It still is felt. Keenly.

Men on women's sports teams is something that just incenses me. Inexcusable.

Kristina Harrison

DancingRaven who is the 'ally' on a women's sports team?

Posie's videocast on pronouns, boundaries, and allies this evening is worth a watch. Just saying.

Apologies Barracker for mis-spelling your name

The first time I read a similar thread to this, sometime last year I found the opinions of women like Barraker quite abrasive and harsh. Once again, though, the eloquence of posters like her, Datun and other MNers has clarified my thoughts and feelings on this and I no longer feel that way. A year later, and I stand beside them, agreeing wholeheartedly. How many girls and women must say no before that’s enough for men (however they identify) to understand they are not welcome? And if they had any respect at all they would understand the answer is one. If only one girl or woman says “no” that is enough, regardless of what that “no”is to. Toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, women’s groups. As the MN saying goes, ”No” is a full sentence.

Ladies you're right

I withdraw my previous tiny amount of sympathy for old school transexuals they don't deserve it. I'll keep working on trying to overcome my female socialisation

Every time I return to Twitter I see another example of a man ignoring women saying no, by suggesting loos perhaps don’t matter. My daughters feel fucking vulnerable in a public loo emptying their menstrual cups. I do too. It is not only Hayton. This is why we cannot rely on men to fight for women’s rights - it somehow gives them the erroneous impression that we give a fuck what they think.

The "old school transexuals" are also the perpetrators of much of the behaviour highlighted on the trans widows threads.

Does DH not know that the problem isn't trans. It is men.

...and allow people to gloat that "we've been using the ladies for years and you never noticed lol" As if!

There's no line, if they are trans they are not women. I feel slightly sorry for the quiet old school transexuals causing no bother but fuck it it's our decision only women get to decide.

Thanks for the flowers all. I worry I sound increasingly harsh and impatient on the trans widows thread, so it's good to know it's not coming across that way.

And I can't take all the credit, I've got a growing posse of helpers.

My deleted post above was probably a fair cop TBH. I was quite cross.

Nice trans, nasty trans? Are we now reduced to making dodgy value judgments about people to decide who gets special rights?
The line is drawn between male and female. Someone who wears a t-shirt proclaiming that they are male shouldn't have any trouble understanding this, surely.