Boundaries and Allies

What do people mean when they say 'old school transsexual'? Debbie only became Debbie a few years ago, right? Or do you mean old school in that they actually had the chop? How do we even know what they've really done to their genitals and why does it matter?

What chance has poor Mrs Hayton got when her husband is championed as a stunning and brave feminist by our most prominent male ally?

I think some high profile men & women have been deliberately and consistently charmed & influenced

aka Groomed .... in't that right, RO

Thanks Tinsel I thought I was the only one seeing it, that I was going mad. Seems Glinner has elected himself master of the women's movement and who gets to be in it.

I think some high profile men & women have been deliberately and consistantly charmed & influenced by some male TS.

(see 'Flying Monkeys' etc)

In Glinner's defence, I think it's because he's so keen to not seem transphobic, that he plays the "look even some trans people agree with me" card.

I know what you mean, Tinsel, I think he's trying to persuade his woke peers to listen to Hayton and Harrison because the wokerati doesn't care about women's opinions.
I don't think it's effective though. It just makes him look like he's getting involved in some internal matter of the trans community.
I think there's an element of elitism among the Twitter GC crowd and certain journalists. If you don't approve of some of their high-profile 'allies', you're out. Some things never change...

Interesting R0 thanks for sharing that. Is Glinner the monkey for Debbie or is it the other way round?

Yes it grates on me too Katniss. I haven't been on twitter much recently.

Interesting R0 - the weaponising of the block button on twitter is something I’ve seen rather a lot of recently. That really sums it up for me.

Ghosting Row ?

'Ghosting' like 'stonewalling' is a common pattern of controlling behaviour.

People are left hanging, waiting for a response.
Its all about power.

important article,
'Flying Monkeys (The Narcissist’s Tool for the Smear Campaign)'

(extract)
So the role of these flying monkeys is first of all abuse by proxy.
Abuse by proxy is when the narcissist gets other people to abuse you. That way the narcissist gets to abuse you but through these people. They’ll reject you, they’ll make you feel not good enough, they’ll shame you, maybe they’ll put you in a bad situation, they’ll tell you that you’re crazy, things like that. This way the narcissist looks like the one that’s clean. They’re not involved." (continues)

Flying monkeys do the narcissist’s bidding. That’s what the smear campaign is, is they’ll do whatever the narcissist wants. The narcissist wants them to go out and talk badly about you and spread lies about you or the narcissist wants them to outright abuse you or to make you feel like you don’t belong. Or maybe they invite you to a place where they know something horrible is gonna happen for you and you’re not going to be comfortable there, those sorts of things.
Flying monkeys make the narcissist feel like they’re important and special. They help the narcissist feel like they’re grandiose, like they have high status, like they’re famous or a celebrity, which is what the narcissist wants to feel. Narcissists often have a whole entourage around them just like a celebrity needs an entourage in order to feel secure about themselves." (continues)

So who can become flying monkeys?
There are two different categories of people.
The first category is the naive.
The naive are people who are just clueless. They can’t see it, they can’t fathom it, they’ve never been through anything like that, so they can’t even imagine that somebody would do such a thing to just make up all these lies about you and spread them across town. They just can’t even fathom that a human would do that or maybe the naive is also the fawning type.
This is the type of people who when faced with a fight or flight dilemma, they choose fawning instead where they just melt into into a strong, dominant personality to feel safe and they don’t realize what’s happening. You might have noticed that even you became one of these flying monkeys when you were in your naive state before you woke up, before you figured out what was going on.

The second category of people who can become flying monkeys are the toxic.
These are the people with no boundaries. They love gossip and drama, they’re addicted to that stuff. They have an integrity problem and usually they want something from the narcissist. They want status, they want flattery, they want favours. They’re getting something out of the narcissist, which is why they’re willing to do their bidding." (continues)
medium.com/@OwnYourReality/flying-monkeys-the-narcissists-tool-for-the-smear-campaign-798daf7a59c0

Ghosting Row ?

Maybe Tinsel, but then why doesn't he balance it by supporting women's (the boring female ones) voices? He's always blocking women who question him or Debbie.

Often the dynamics are those common in control-pattern behaviour.

Many people have unwittingly become 'flying monkeys'.

Worth considering the role that 'ghosting' plays too.

TinselAngel

Honestly I feel that if you're an ally then you should listen to and respect women and not tell them to be nice and kind to d and k just because they blow smoke up your arse and are of the same sex as you.

I'm glad KatnissEverbeen brought glinner up as he's shown himself up to be a fickle ally is recent weeks. He called known and respected feminists tra trolls on Twitter, tried to Gaslight a woman who is fighting a legal case against a well known tra in both public and private and has shown he'll always believe and listen to men more than to women. Ally my backside IMHO

In Glinner's defence, I think it's because he's so keen to not seem transphobic, that he plays the "look even some trans people agree with me" card.

Platforming Kristina and Debbie who self-id and take women's opportunities away from them, who think woman is costume or feeling, who think they dictate women's rights. What an ally, aren't women lucky to have Glinner decide our boundaries for us.

Oh well...football...fuck them.

Thanks Breton. That's what I was referring to, not dressage (which isn't split by sex as far as I know, like all equine sports)

DancingRaven agreed. Glinner platforms and supports transwomen over women, so its Glinner forcing males into female only space. Him and the other men get to decide women's rights and boundaries. What an ally.

Outandabout Harrison talks openly on twitter about playing on a women’s football team, but excuses it because Harrison was in their 40s and therefore not at their sporting peak. It’s disgusting entitlement.

TinselAngel Another one here who reads the Transwidows thread. It is probably the only source of help for women who suffer through this. Very important and I agree with someone upthread - it is a handhold of the highest order.

I used to think you were harsh too Barracker. Now I get it, and in my life where I've been having conversations about it,some people think I'm harsh too. But I keep at it because oh lord when they get it it's like the Matrix.

When I first came to FWR I couldn't believe some of the "harsh" things that were said - not because I was shocked and affronted, quite the opposite I totally agreed with them, but I was amazed that women were allowed to say those things in that way.

FWR gave me the permission to think those thoughts and to speak them out loud.

It's been completely inspiring and I give huge thanks to those past and (still) present posters who helped me to do that

I think much of what we see on FWR is not just the scales falling from many eyes, but also confronting head on the female socialisation to be nice, to be accomodating, to put others first, to go high when they go low etc - I suspect that's why many who are new here find themselves shocked and upset by what's said and the tone in which it's said.