Boundaries and Allies

Debbie doesn't have a GRC so is self-id into women's spaces and is compelling their students to use female pronouns under self-id. Then we get this steaming pile of hypocrisy or is Debbie just telling the world what they are actually up to?

Here is Debbie supporting Munroe Bergdorf - not allowing Munroe to work with kids despite Munroe's dismal record on lesphobia, sexism and child safeguarding was treating Munroe unfairly?

Oh, but it is alright because then they say something to appease the women and maintain self image.

Turn the gaslight off.

Respect my NO.
Respect my daughter.
Respect women.
Respect our privacy.
Respect our consent.
Stay out of our private, intimate, female only spaces.
Whatever standard you as a male 'ally' argue applies to men, all those written pieces apparently defending women's rights to say no to all men?

Apply it to yourself.

I understand why people are frustrated when I find platforms and get my work published, while women find it more difficult. It's partly male privilege, partly trans privilege (other trans people find platforms they would never secure were they not trans) but I do have a reasoned case: that although gender dysphoria is caused by society, it is real and has a crushing effect on the individual; that while gender transition is a palliative solution, it does not change our sex; that when transwomen are included with women, we need to be risk assessed differently.

However, I am puzzled why people are upset that I have shared a piece by Jo Bartosch, a female writer whose work I value and appreciate.

As for my personal life, I'm quite happy to say that while most people in real life use female pronouns for me, I really don't mind if others use male pronouns. It is not an issue for me. However, I do not and will not comment on which toilets I might use. Lots of assumptions are made, but I will not confirm them or deny them. But you might want to consider the final part of the statement I made on page 4 of this thread.

MNHQ shouldn't delete any posts going forward that use him/he for DH.

See attached screenshot.

He has confirmed he doesn't compel female pronouns, not that I used those for him, but MNHQ standards require censorship of posters that use male pronouns for male people without their male permission. And DH has provided his permission which should satisfy MNHQ that we can use he/him freely now.

But my understanding is that he still uses intimate female spaces that young girls may be using to get undressed or change tampons, that he refuses to acknowledge or respect women's consent, that he jokes about it, that he considers his need to be in those spaces with girls to be more important than those girls' and women's needs to be away from him and from all men.
Oh, and I also understand his school policy still stands; that girls who call him by male pronouns in school should be forced to apologise. So maybe that policy needs updating. It seems like he ought to cease encouraging girls to submit to using female pronouns for him too.

My.
What a difference a pronoun makes.

twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1105197874256797696
Here Debbie explicitly says 'yes I do' in regard to being asked if Debbie uses women's toilets.

Debbie points out that there is no law to stop Debbie (who doesn't have a GRC and is self-ID) using the women's toilets. Debbie is letting women know that they will do it despite women's discomfort and we can 't stop Debbie.

Well, hopefully all males attending the WPUK meeting, however they identify, will have the courtesy not to use the women's toilets.

Debbie has said “he/him” are fine to be used (no compelled speech) so I don’t feel I have to participate in anything

Apart from Debbie's insistence that being in the women's loos in spite of our discomfort is something that Debbie can't get worked up about.

Apart from Debbie insisting that children in Debbie's school call Debbie Miss and apologise if they don't subscribe to compelled speech/make mistakes.

Apart from Debbie taking centre stage when talking about women's rights at meetings or in the press.

Apart from Debbie seemingly considering Debbie as a special exception to gender critical feminist's objections because Debbie claims Debbie is on our side.

I thought Debbie preferred 'she/her' and uses women's toilets? Doesn't sound like a great ally to me. Female only spaces should remain female

This looks like Debbie still self-id's into women's toilets and sees women's concerns as a joke. I'm glad Debbie has permitted you to accurately describe reality by using correct sex pronouns, how kind.

I don’t think Debbie is trolling. To me masturbating in a public space at work, filming it, and uploading it to a site anyone on Linked In can find... crosses a line.

Debbie has said “he/him” are fine to be used (no compelled speech) so I don’t feel I have to participate in anything.

Debbie is attending WPUK, every woman in that room is therefore forced to be part of Debbie's fetish. I think Debbie likes being able to be so blatant about it as shown on Twitter knowing that women can't say anything because of Glinner and the like.

The trans widow threads were/are a revelation in understanding late-transitioning males, and I would recommend that any lurkers read through them. It's the similarity in the stories that I find extraordinary, and I'm afraid every time I see a 'brave and stunning' trans woman, who was previously married, my heart goes out to the wife and family left behind, hoping they're now OK after the years of lies and deception. LTB seems an apt response in most cases, it seems.

Seeing D Hayton's wife on Stella's documentary was shocking, D standing beside her grinning away oblivious to the pain their wife was in. After seeing that having previously read Tinsels trans widow thread I could never see D as an ally again. I was already very unhappy with the way they had a public voice in this being invited onto debates etc whilst women weren't

By "old school transsexual", I think people mean the males with gender dysphoria who the GRC was designed for. Before the much looser concept of "transgender" based on self ID and gender identity came along.

I know there's lots of problems with that differentiation, but I think that's what people mean.

When people say 'old school transexual' do they mean 'true trans'? That some males can change sex? Is it like 'old school sexism' ? Why are women expected to help males with mental health problems? Why do we have to wipe everyone's arses?

Even that post I now don't like after re reading.

The shit that's going on in schools Must Stop.

There's far more going on than people realise; organised 'official' 'LGBTQ+' shit getting in to primary schools way beyond stonewall etc. Through teacher training colleges.

I feel utterly hopeless at what I'm reading about and becoming aware of.

I'm only half way through this thread; I started the TES thread.

My personal views are starting to change; not least since the rohypnol thread. The stella o malley thread was also significant for me (watching the film.) I can fully see the duplicity as I did say in that thread. I couldn't outright thank DH at first because of it, though I appreciated the time and effort put into the article. I also hugely appreciated the fact it was the TES and ND was knocked off her pedestal as her views have been so extremely damaging.

The problem I personally have is that in the world of education, which I know well, most are absolutely no where near base camp, let alone beginning any ascent towards a minor peak. The TES is a hugely important and influential publication for teachers; I seem to remember having a years free subscription with my first union membership.

There's pretty much one lone voice posting on the TES forums and many of his posts were deleted as recently as last year. The article was a huge U turn for the TES. So I could see the value of the article in this context plus in my mind the weight of it being written by a trans person was more than the tantrumming of ND. This was repeatedly commented on on twitter as a reply to calls of 'bigot!' And the wokes has no where to go with because of that.

I can also see the gaslighting. It's extremely difficult. The TW threads are immensely valuable. As I said the rohypnol thread was my latest peak.

AngryAttackKittens wrote:
I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

(its an illuminating & important thread!)