Boundaries and Allies

Yes can confirm DH's private messaging habit. Nope.

Re the "friends with tras" comment. I can confirm this. Dh likes to lunch with certain tras and then defends them online.

Dh defends only dh. Dh fights only for dhs rights and dh has been getting of at having women fawn over them as some sort of 3rd rate hero. Dh is noting more than a wolf in sheep's clothing who has been Gaslighting us all for years.

Dh also changes the signatures on the letter in the times from "mother" to "parent" and refuses to explain why.

Open your eyes ladies.

OP check your PMs I'm sure dh has used their usual tactic of wanting to discuss it all in private to Gaslight you a little more.

I would add Jenn Smith ("Transanity" blog and YouTube) to Miranda Yardley in the roll of honour for holding a very hard line on "sex not gender".

Jenn is getting mobbed by violent TRAs all over Canada on a "sex not gender" speaking tour.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCLnZSxIU8j8jT22tBgd-saQ/videos

I remembered seeing Jenn pass comment on a couple of our very strong, effective and articulate allies who nevertheless stumble at the "but I'm a LADY!" test.

twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=hayton%20%20from%3A%40JenBear72996337&src=typd
(screenshots)

Jenn is also keen to debunk myths and misunderstandings about "bottom surgery
twitter.com/JenBear72996337/status/1110087383750307841
(screenshot)

If you have not seen it, this video by Jenn cannot be shared enough IMHO on a par with "Rhohypnol Pronouns"!

"The Transgender Jedi Mind Trick"

I never liked DH having seen DH speak at a WPUK meeting and thinking [insert wrongthink not compatible with talk guifelines] The clincher was seeing DH's poor wife on Stella O'Malley's documentary

*MY is really the only one I have ever had any time for, MY really seems to have spent a long time thinking through it all and tried to seriously unpick their male socialisation and privilege.&

Yes. Miranda's a good bloke.

Trans people like Debbie Hayton show that there is a way to be trans and still consider other people's rights

Debbie Hayton writes letters and tweets in support of women. Saying no, men should not be impinging on women's rights. Then says only I can do that, because I'm not like them. I can use the female facilities, because I disagree that there is any need for me not to and I find that funny anyway. And I can make children pretend I'm female. And I can use the ladies at work.

But not those other transwomen.

It's the very definition of hypocrisy.

Trans people like Debbie Hayton show that there is a way to be trans and still consider other people's rights

Absolute bollocks. Hayton clearly shows in that exchange that they don’t consider other people’s rights at all. They know women object to their presence in our facilities but they go ahead anyway and don’t give a flying fuck.

The only rights Hayton considers are Hayton’s own. They don’t give a damn for anyone else’s unless they are in line with Hayton’s.

Why, incidentally, do we have to put aside the wants and needs of all women to ease whatever dysphoria men claim to experience? Why is easing their dysphoria more important than allowing women to feel and be safe, comfortable, protected etc?

Trans people like Debbie Hayton show that there is a way to be trans and still consider other people's rights

Really? Debbie insists on being called ‘Miss’ by Debbie’s pupils, teaching them that sometimes an adults feelings are more important than being able to honestly describe what they perceive

In terms of equipping children to speak out to keep themselves safe, this is a safeguarding disaster

If Hayton was truly an ally to women and girls, Hayton would not behave in the way they do.

It's very easy to write up a good opinion piece in the times,but if they say one thing, and then do another, it's empty words.

Well, I'm GC but I really don't agree with what is being written here. I think that Debbie is a hero. And I agree with Debbie that toilets are a trivial issue. There are much more important issue at stake.

The fact of the matter is that there are some people who - for whatever reason - have unbearable gender dysphoria and find that medical transition and playacting being the other sex relieves it.

We have to find a way to reconcile that with the rights of other people. The TRAs say that all that matters is their feelings. And that is untenable. But it is equally untenable and fundamentalist on the other side to say that their feelings don't matter at all.

Trans people like Debbie Hayton show that there is a way to be trans and still consider other people's rights. And that is invaluable. I want to hear from people like her as much as possible.

If there's another side to the story I think we'd all appreciate hearing it.

I’ve had strong feelings about the platforming of DH and other so-called transsexuals all along.

The only one who doesn’t get my spidey senses tingling is Miranda, because he has never claimed to be a woman.

I agree with this.

MY is really the only one I have ever had any time for, MY really seems to have spent a long time thinking through it all and tried to seriously unpick their male socialisation and privilege.

How successful that can ever be I don't know, but I think I would be genuinely disappointed if MY turned out to not actually be an ally.

Or should we be asking whose ally? Endorses self-id, supports compelled speech, infultraits women's groups but is friends with TRAs.

Hang on. Friends with TRAs?

Yeah I remember reading an article about Debbie in Physics World and being somewhat annoyed by the lack of self-awareness, and was surprised to hear that DH was considered an ally. I expect others felt the same. Trust your instincts.

Or should we be asking whose ally? Endorses self-id, supports compelled speech, infultraits women's groups but is friends with TRAs.

Good title OP.

Allies respect boundaries. If they don't respect boundaries, they're not allies.

It’s the gaslighting of Debbie’s pupils that troubles me most. That an experienced teacher would put children in a situation where they have to lie to appease adults

I find it quite upsetting

Totally Barracker, all for sexual kicks.

Also, once again men think it is ok to debate what rights and boundaries women are allowed to have.

Remember that thread last year, where Hayton was too busy to discuss why using female spaces where children and women had not consented was a complete breach of boundaries, and DH offered to chat about it over a beer, debate women's and girls consent with them, but intended to carry on regardless?

I'll stick to MN guidelines.
But I should mention that my thoughts do not.

My thoughts are that, HYPOTHETICALLY, if 5 years ago a middle aged man had announced he was entering any and every private female space, whether children were present and undressed, or not, knew we expressly did not consent to his presence, and didn't care?
Well, I expect no amount of evidence of future 'allyship' to women's and girls rights would cause women to overlook that abuse.
And I'm not sure that there would be anything that hypothetical man could do, grow his hair, wear a skirt, or have surgery, that would make it acceptable for him to impose himself on female children and grown women despite their emphatic demand he doesn't.

A man who hears women and girls say no to him, and pushes right past that no, because he thinks he's entitled, all the while laughing, and publicly claiming that other men should not be able to do the same, knowing that where he leads, all similar men will follow ....
What should that man be called?

I’ve had strong feelings about the platforming of DH and other so-called transsexuals all along. I’ve not always been popular for voicing them.

The only one who doesn’t get my spidey senses tingling is Miranda, because he has never claimed to be a woman.

Same with Glinner, although I think he has been a bit more misguided than duplicitous. He’s just a man who has a blind spot to his male privilege and socialisation. It’s unhelpful nevertheless and I wish women wouldn’t feel the need to centre men to placate other men.