Boundaries and Allies

The argument you are facing is that women's spaces are for women. It doesn't matter what motivation one has for violating that boundary.

This. If you genuinely believe that women have the right to our own sex-segregated spaces, you’ll respect them.

And I think your wrong because, in the admittedly limmited, converations I have had with Debbie they have quite emphatically emphasised the fact they are male, biologically and as far as socialisation goes, and they have also been quite sure that they are mindful of respecting womens spaces and boundaries.

Realistically, what's the difference to me if a male transperson using female facilities recognises the fact that they are male or denies that they are male?

That is the key argument that I'm facing.

Nope.

The argument you are facing is that women's spaces are for women. It doesn't matter what motivation one has for violating that boundary.

Spartacus most of it, like this, finds its way in here sooner or later. And then more pieces get added to the puzzle.

@NotAnotherFeckingMuftiDay

That is the key argument that I'm facing.

By using the women's toilets, I make it more difficult for women to challenge those with nefarious intent ... the abusive male could say "well if it's OK for Debbie then why not me?"

Any man ignoring women's boundaries IS that abusive male.

Violating women's boundaries and discarding our rights - just banter according to Debbie.

DH's colleagues may be ok with sharing the women's facilities with them. However DH must by now be fully aware that by using the facilities they are opening the door to 'pervy Barry' to claim trans status and access women's facilities with ill intent.

Even if DH believes they are no risk to women and truly believes that they will not cause upset, to knowingly open the door to pervy Barry and his mate Jonathan is irresponsible and a massive 'Fuck You' to women.

Debbie you say I a lot in your post. It kinda shows what you’re concerned about

And btw - if you’re talking about either a, b, or c you need to be in the men’s.

By using the women's toilets, I make it more difficult for women to challenge those with nefarious intent ... the abusive male could say "well if it's OK for Debbie then why not me?"

That puts women in a very difficult position. I get that.

Well that's a step in the right direction. Although. I don't understand how it can be news exactly Debbie.

It is, after all, almost the Number One argument that women make.

By using the women's toilets, I make it more difficult for women to challenge those with nefarious intent ... the abusive male could say "well if it's OK for Debbie then why not me?"

That puts women in a very difficult position. I get that.

I’m glad you get that, and hopefully also that a lot of women & girls may feel uncomfortable with your presence but unable to say so. You, Kristina Harrison & others who say they sympathise with women have the chance to set a very powerful example here by using men’s spaces.

Debbie this is not about you, can you not see that?

D, cross post. I appreciate your posting and talking here and I appreciate that you are in a very difficult position. But women have to be honest and blunt about this because trying to be nice has led to this dire situation women are now facing.

Spartacus

As you're aware it's not just DH. Over the past month or so many "allies" have shown themselves to be mras, misogynistic pigs, porn obsessed, or lesbophobic.

Some have become undone themselves on Twitter for the GC world to see, others have tried to assert their male privilege by harassing GC women and calling them "tea trolls" to their followers, others will become undone in the time with multiple women speaking out.

DancingRaven - 'Could you clarify where people are wrong?'

To answer that, as I hate it when people ignore questions, I guess I am assuming this thread is about how Debbie Hayton as a man is attempting to occupy womens spaces.

And I think your wrong because, in the admittedly limmited, converations I have had with Debbie they have quite emphatically emphasised the fact they are male, biologically and as far as socialisation goes, and they have also been quite sure that they are mindful of respecting womens spaces and boundaries.

More broadly I think we should, as a movement, embrace genuine attempts, by anyone, to counter a male centric society.