Paris Lees and Pantene?

80's perms weren't gender binary.

it's equating long hair with being female

No it isn't- beyond that someone with long hair is more likely to be a girl than a boy so anyone looking at Lees might think she was a girl. It is not saying only women can have long hair or having long means you are a woman.

Hair style does not make a woman a woman I didn't say it did.

If Paris had transitioned in the 1980s do you think having long hair would have helped Paris 'pass' (or deceive, more honestly)? No. Because long hair wasn't the thing for girls in the 80s

Well that's nonsense.

I will condemn Proctor & Gamble for using Paris Lees to sell shampoo to women.

I won't condemn women for using affordable hair products.

it's equating long hair with being female. Being female is nothing to do with hair and everything to do with biology which Paris can't change, try as Paris might. It is reinforcing the stereotype (which you've rebranded as a cultural marker) to signify femaleness.

If Paris had transitioned in the 1980s do you think having long hair would have helped Paris 'pass' (or deceive, more honestly)? No. Because long hair wasn't the thing for girls in the 80s.

Hair style does not make a woman a woman.

Lassso are you saying the Jason upthread is actually a woman because of his 'cultural market' of having long hair?

Bet that's news to him

Please stop making things up. I said nothing of the kind.

What I said was I took that comment by Paris Lees to mean nothing more than in her early days of transition having long hair helped her to be seen as a girl. Neither she nor I are saying long hair means you are a woman but carry on twisting what I said. Talk about points whooshing by

People with long hair are more than likely to be girls (you general you) might not like that but are you denying that as a fact? Ergo on a casual glance at the young Paris Lees her having long hair probably helped her pass.

*marker

Lass so are you saying the Jason upthread is actually a woman because of his 'cultural market' of having long hair?

Bet that's news to him.

If I gave a stuff about such things, or if I had hang ups about my short hair I would not be very happy that PL came along and told me I'm not women

Well she isn't , is she? Honestly you really are twisting what she said to come to that conclusion.

Back in the seventies, Pantene was pronounced “Panteen” and was regarded as cheap stinky muck. My father was the only person who used it in our house. So I don’t regard Paris Lees as at all inappropriate as an ambassador!

The point just whizzed over your head then, because we women have been campaigning for donkeys about stupid stereotypes like "a person with long hair will be a girl"

No the point did not just whizz over my head. I don't think she meant anything more than because of what you call "stupid sterotypes" and what others would call cultural markers that that cultural marker was helpful to her personally at that time.

Exactly. No wonder this generation is confused with nonsense like that spouted. Almost every single girl in my son's 6th form has the obligatory long tresses. The only one who doesn't, he says, is an LGBT one. He's not sure what's she's defining herself as currently.

I don't think she meant much more by it than it's more likely that a person with long hair will be a girl and will be seen as a girl and that was helpful for her
The point just whizzed over your head then, because we women have been campaigning for donkeys about stupid stereotypes like "a person with long hair will be a girl"

If I gave a stuff about such things, or if I had hang ups about my short hair I would not be very happy that PL came along and told me I'm not women.

How is that helpful? It doesn't even help r mck who has short hair

- Pringles

I’m all for sticking up for my principles but that’s like boycotting oxygen.

I don't like Paris Lees as she is a terrible writer and such a lefty right on Corbyn fan.

I've never bought Pantene and this would not make me change my mind.

However I think you are being unfair about the it was a key signifier that she was female when she was going through her transition as a teen remark.

She isn't saying long hair made her a woman or that women can't have short hair. Yes, some boys and young men have long hair, and the numbers vary from time to time, but it is always a minority. I don't think she meant much more by it than it's more likely that a person with long hair will be a girl and will be seen as a girl and that was helpful for her.

I don't really mind people with nice swishy hair advertising crap hair products.

I suspect Lees wouldn't be seen dead actually using such cheap shampoo - Pantene is what my notoriously cheap ex buys our dds to use when they stay with him - it's a supermarket level shampoo, which is fine but hardly an exciting campaign.

Not so keen on the idea that flouncy hair is a female marker. I dated lots of men in the 80s who had gorgeous long hair, & are mostly balding now. I also had flowing, glossy locks. This had nothing to do with our sex - we were all just young, pretty, & hairy!

Long, shiny hair is nice. It's not a marker of being a woman, though.

Pantene helps male pattern hair loss? This is brilliant news.

Mine's falling out (bloody menopause) and, whilst it's not male pattern hair loss, still, if it works for Paris I'm SURE it'll be just the very dab for me.

Do female hormones do anything to prevent male pattern baldness? Asking out of interest with no particular relevance to this thread

Off the top of my head, they own:

• Arial and Lenor
• Fairy (I think)
• Aussie
• Flash
• Pringles
• Head and Shoulders

If Pantene want to attract the Woke crowd they’re going to have to make shampoo that turns your hair blue.

I use Head and Shoulders mainly. Until recently it was also their "for men" shampoo as it was on special offer and they all contain much the same stuff.

bingbong I Was just thinking that I’m going to need to boycott a lot of P &G products not just Pantene.

Ariel and Fairy will have to go and DH will have to manage without Viakal.

I think it's good that Pantene have realised the male 50% of the population would also benefit from their shampoos. Good marketing. Female hair isn't much different to male hair apart from the hormone effect on the follicles.

I think both Gillette and Pantene are Proctor and Gamble, along with numerous other brands.

It is very easy to boycott Pantene. I'd also heard it coats your hair in plastic to make it shine. Hairdressers don't like it.

I don't think a female with jailtime for assault in her past would ever be allowed to become a brand ambassador for a Proctor and Gamble brand. Special women get forgiven so much more.

Paris Lees, Paris Sleeze, isn't that the joke in the name? Why they picked it?