“These are not our crimes”. Male violence being recorded as female.

Jackie - I think the 'our' is more powerful than explicitly mentioning 'women' (particularly now its an 'opt in' category)

I agree. And by avoiding the word ‘woman’ in this instance means you don’t end up arguing with someone over the definition of woman.

You can’t self-identify into the category of ‘our’ and even Twitter is going to have trouble classifying ‘your’ as hate speech.

I was just thinking this with regard to Julie Bindel being attacked this evening by that trans activist. What should be reported as male violence upon a female but what is being reported in such incidences is female on female violence which is not looked upon as being so serious. It's not right and it needs remedying.

‘Misrecorded’ that should have read, not mid recorded.

Agree entirely with the ‘not our crimes’ point-extremely powerful, simple and truthful. The erosion of data accuracy to support individual validation affects absolutely everyone negatively- the individual and everyone else who those stats would be relevant to.

This is the same point as with health records data or government or educational data or any data really where it is mid recorded on the basis of gender (instead of biological sex). The only exception to this would be where the relevant data point actually is how someone self-identifies., in which case, fine.

It’s not hard to imagine though that recording by gender not sex could create (eg in health records) medical confusion which could seriously threaten individual patient safety. Same as with crime statistics, such misrecording will endanger all patients long term by skewing the research results coming from anonymised population level health records research.

I'm really supportive of crimes and statistical reporting using the legal status of sex. We cannot have the statistics skewed in any way, it serves noone. It acts as an excuse for men to whine that women do it as well just like they do on virtually every post Women's Aid post.

Not our crimes.

That is very powerful.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3532109-Joan-McAlpine-MSP-now-asks-about-how-Police-record-transgender-criminals

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-criticised-over-allowing-suspects-to-self-identify-gender-1-4939550

McAlpine for First Minister!

👆WTAF

Ms McAlpine responded: “I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that answer, but I think many people will be shocked to hear it.”

She said research from elsewhere had shown that male offending remained the same even if men self-declare themselves to be women and said criminologists had expressed concerns about “misleading” data.

She said: "The Cabinet Secretary will be aware that offending rates vary significantly according to biological sex, with males accounting for 84 per cent of violent crime and more than 95 per cent of sexual crime.

"Longitudinal studies (carried out) elsewhere suggest male-pattern offending remains the same even if men self-declare themselves to be women. So does the Cabinet Secretary agree with criminologists that it is misleading if data shows a rise in female sex offending, for example, including rape, when these crimes are actually committed by men?”

Mr Yousaf said there was no pattern of men self-identifying as women “to either commit sexual offences or indeed to manipulate statistics”. But he said he was willing to look at the issue in more detail.

“I meet with criminologists on regular occasions and none of them have raised this issue with me," he said. "If we should have an unexpected result, such as a rise in the number of women committing sexual offences, we would of course investigate further."

Richard Garside, director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies, said: “I’m glad the justice secretary is open to learning more. It’s really important that crime statistics are based on objective criteria, independent of the persons subjective views and feelings. Classifying according to birth sex, rather than subjective feelings about the self, should therefore be the norm.”

SNP MSP Joan McAlpine who asked a question on the issue at Holyrood said the justice secretary’s answer would leave many people “shocked” and could lead to concerns over the accuracy of recorded crime statistics.

Asked whether Police Scotland and the courts record incidents based on a suspect’s birth sex or by self-declaration, Mr Yousaf said: “With regard to victims, witnesses and suspects, Police Scotland and the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service record incidents according to a person’s self-identified gender.

“Police Scotland require no evidence or certification as proof of gender identity other than a person’s self declaration.

“Unless - and I think it’s important to emphasise this - it’s pertinent to any criminal investigation with which they are linked and it is evidentially critical that Police Scotland legally require this proof.”

And .. don't forget ... if a GRC has not been issued all this reporting of crime in this way is unnecessary and is being done by institutional choice.

If there is no GRC the person is legally male and must be treated as such [and vice versa]. Given that circa 5000 GRCs have been issued since 2005 it seems likely that none of these criminals have a GRC.

See also, from GRA 2004 [section 22]:

"(4) But it is not an offence under this section to disclose protected information relating to a person if—

(c) the information is protected information by virtue of subsection (2)(b) and the person by whom the disclosure is made does not know or believe that a full gender recognition certificate has been issued,"

Yes, the Rohypnol article was very, very good. Spot on.

Leading to such reporting as: "She then exposed her penis..." It is madness-inducing.

I suspect the writers (and readers), whilst doing a double take, don't actually fully appreciate the Rohypnol effect. It's slow and pervasive.

I think These are not our crimes is excellent.

I'm baffled that we seem to have sleepwalked into this mess, where men's crimes can be recorded in the women's crime figures, and the media reports the criminal as 'she'.

Leading to such reporting as: "She then exposed her penis..." It is madness-inducing.

This is interesting in terms of UK law, from the Gender Recognition Act 2004, about disclosure of information relating to the status of a person; where disclosure is permitted:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/22#section-22-4

see especially subsections [e] and [f]

They should consider renaming the Transcrime website to These Are Not Our Crimes. It says it all and sounds less 'tabloid'.

Apollo - this is a great idea

I always wonder how on earth will the police organise an identity parade if the male offender is identified as a woman? Mind boggles

I'm also wondering if they would seriously put a family through hell bringing them in to identify a body .

" a woman matching your description has been brought in we need you to identify her"

From the link:

In fact, there seems to be some kind of significance to the choice of weapon. The Degenderettes, an international “genderqueer group”, are infamous for their posed images of transwomen with axes usually accompanied by blood and anti-women messaging.

Identifying as women, having a specifically anti woman motivation, being identified as women in the press, recorded as a female crime and campaigning to go to a female prison.

It's blatant manipulation. In fact it's beyond manipulation. It's like some awful malevolent game of chess with women as the deliberate victims.

Such double standards!
How else do you maintain your victim status.

I'm a woman- gets treated as a woman ie ignored-i'm invisible cos in trans

I'm a victim- trans
I'm.a criminal-woman

Asked if trans in hospital- I'm a woman you trans phone.

Treated as a woman and ends up ill or dead due to tests read as womans results 'we need better healthcare we are dying.

Make your minds up...

It’s true that news reports call transwomen ‘transwomen’ if they are the victim of a crime, and call them ‘women’ if they are the perpetrator. Such double standards!

They should consider renaming the Transcrime website to These Are Not Our Crimes. It says it all and sounds less 'tabloid'.

Isn't the the person with the hammer in Echo report one of the police's many 'advisers' on trans matters?

Crimes should be recorded by sex.

Its bloody dangerous besides anything else too when descriptions are released telling people to look out for a six foot woman with a motor bike. No ones gonna be searching for a man then are they.

They literally care more about being woke than solving crimes, getting the correct information and keeping the public safe.

How many abducted peope are going to end up never found as search parties look for completely the wrong person

Thanks Yeahnahyeah