Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GC Gender Studies academics

70 replies

Doyoumind · 04/06/2019 15:14

I've been pondering this and wondered if anyone who knows more than me can answer.

I know of various vocal GC academics - philosphers, scientists, historians etc - because although I don't always get involved on these boards as much as on other MN boards I read them a lot and I use Twitter to keep an eye on what's going on.

I know of the likes of Sally Hines. IABU to think that out there in Gender and Women's Studies there must be some GC academics? Have I just missed them? Are they all 'TWAW' or are they there but unable to speak out?

TIA

OP posts:
Pota2 · 05/06/2019 10:39

Also, does anyone know what CCP is referring to here?

twitter.com/ccriadoperez/status/1136201115798781952?s=21

Sounds like something Phipps/Hines-esque...

Pota2 · 05/06/2019 10:37

Yikes. I also read the summary of Phipps’ book, where also she says that white feminists always roll out victim narratives to try to get their way basically. I don’t know where to begin with this. She is undermining the struggles of so many women and writing them off as attention-seeking (talks about the ‘white tears’ phenomenon too). I fully support intersectional analysis (its real meaning, not the TRA meaning) but what Phipps and her ilk seek to do is to gleefully silence and undermine women and their experiences, scoring woke-points along the way because she is apparently sticking up for racial minorities.

She does the same regarding sex-workers (who she often refers to as ‘whores’ in her cool-girl manner). White feminists apparently point to the experiences of those who have escaped prostitution and who almost unanimously point out how exploitative it is, which is sooo unhelpful because we only need to hear the voices of those who claim to want to be sex workers and whose only gripe is that their work is not given the status of any other type of work.

‘Feminist’ academia is fucking dangerous in this new era where it’s fine to totally shit on women, as long as you come up with a clever new woke angle (like ‘hey, let’s stop recording sex on birth certificates’). Then they scratch their heads when misogyny and sexual abuse remain at a high, including within higher education. Although we can’t really say that of course because of cis privilege/white tears/fragility.

realdoctor · 05/06/2019 10:14

More on 'white feminism', an extract from A. Phipps's new book, can be found online:

"However, the white will to power also exists as whiteness intersects with gender inequalities and individual experiences of victimisation. White women – even survivors of sexual violence – possess and express it too. It is possible that sexual violence might intensify it: since sexual assault and rape involve a loss of power and control, regaining this is crucial to successful recovery."

Basically she is saying here that white (cis-het-middle class) women always remain privileged, even if they have been sexually assaulted. They are natural oppressors, should never be allowed to indulge in a sense of victimhood, should not avail themselves of the power of the state.

It all sounds very right-on but what does it mean politically? AP says: "we are not entitled to politicise our pain with no concern for what it might do". Even the most abused, downtrodden white woman is not allowed to ask for political interventions and remedies without thinking of others.

There is a lot of harmful potential in this logic. Raped, pregnant and want an abortion - think of others. Threatened by violent ex-partner and want a restraining order - think of others. Sacked from job and want to access employment tribunal - think of others. Would men have any truck with this?

ChattyLion · 05/06/2019 08:09

It really makes me see the danger of the no platforming #nodebate culture in academia. Usually academics with ludicrous unevidenced ideas get the ideas raked over and if necessary shown up (for being vacuous, man-pleasing politicking or whatever) via robust debate with other academics. But this relies on everything being safe to be out in the open and debate based on freely conducted, robust research.
It’s very worrying.

Goosefoot · 05/06/2019 03:37

Hmm, somehow deleted a sentence, that should have read,

...since it affects women we have to include women's experience, that is where this has gone wrong, I don't think that is the only issue.

Goosefoot · 05/06/2019 03:36

We are all best at fighting for things that directly affect us.

I understand what you are saying with this, and I don't disagree, but at the same time, I kind of find it difficult to agree.

There seem to be just too many instances where individuals, because they are members of the relevant marginalised group, seem to be given a free pass to define and explain the situation in a way that is simply not really describing the situation, or is codswallop, or sometimes is even self-serving.

I mean, that's what's happened with some of the trans stuff, Mermaids and so on, hasn't it? The are the community who is living the experience so we are supposed to accept their narrative. And while some might say well, since it affects women we have to include women's experience, that is where this has gone wrong.

If some man pointed out that they were talking codswallop, like that unfortunate priest who clearly had no standing in any oppressed group or lived experience, he would be completely correct.

HerFemaleness · 04/06/2019 23:59

Academic makes what’s actually a good point but is then forced to backtrack (and agree with someone who calls himself Stranglewank Hitman) in order to confirm her adherence to the ideology. Point about sexism in academic publishing totally lost.

Dear god that exchange was despressing. Stranglewank even goes on to claim that sex has never affected anything in anyone's life! And Sharon Cowen who is apparently a feminist, agrees with him!

realdoctor · 04/06/2019 23:50

Compulsory pronoun introduction rounds are not necessarily a good idea. Students may actually be struggling with their identity and feel that they are being put on the spot. There are very good non-GC arguments against 'pronoun rounds'. It's another one of these weird rituals that have been unthinkingly imported.

Morag96 · 04/06/2019 23:41

I think it's difficult when you start claiming to represent or stand for something that is outside your own experience. Men claiming to be feminists, public school educated wealthy Marxists claiming to speak for "the workers" white women claiming to be working on behalf of black women all seem doomed to failure. We are all best at fighting for things that directly affect us.
I'm not a fan of the cultural appropriation trend that limits what clothing or hair style you can wear according to which box you fit in but there are some issues that affect all women and others where the section affected has to take charge. They can try and get other women on board E.g. "get the L out" had to be a lesbian led action but other women can support it.

AgileLass · 04/06/2019 23:40

I’m a GC academic and am struggling with the whole thing a lot at the moment.

The latest in my institution is an email going round raising the issue of inclusive teaching as a priority area in L&T over the coming years.

What’s that, you say? Well, the number one example was to open each tutorial by going round the room and everyone stating their preferred pronouns.

Coming to a university near you, just wait and see. This stuff will spread like wildfire.

realdoctor · 04/06/2019 23:15

The 'white feminism' accusation is difficult. Like so many wonderful things it comes from America, where there is a history of white feminists not standing up for their African-American sisters (for example in the fight for suffrage) and, I would argue, a much more deeply embedded racism in society (because the US is a colonial settler society and because of slavery on American soil). In Britain, we do live in a multi-cultural society (even if the vast majority of British people are white - think it's over 85%) and racism hasn't been eradicated in the UK, it is still blighting lives.

But it has little to nothing to do with the sex/gender question. Women who are black, Asian or from other ethnic minorities, will be harmed just as much as white women if the definition of 'woman' is changed and if women lose sex-specific resources.

Morag96 · 04/06/2019 23:02

And criticising people for being concerned with "first world problems", when the critic has probably never left that"world" plus I thought discussions of the "third world" were now considered offensive as we all live in one world. It's just more virtue signalling to imply the critic always has his or her mind on more serious things and always eats his dinner up because of "the starving children in Africa"

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:46

Another favourite response to GC feminists from these people is ‘white feminism’. The irony is that they themselves are nearly all white, often middle-class, women, many of whom have never worked outside academia

Yes! I often get the feeling that these women are mostly privileged and cosseted, and benefitting from the struggles of previous generations.They haven't felt the sharp edge - yet!

realdoctor · 04/06/2019 22:44

repent, repent, repent

under his eye

it's the self-abasement that gets me every time. you lose all respect.

realdoctor · 04/06/2019 22:42

Yes indeed Justhadathought

See also cis/trans

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:40

I absolutely agree. I’d be very happy to stand corrected that my assumptions are wrong

....and a response from Sharon Cowan who calls herself an academic in queer studies and criminal law.

Pota2 · 04/06/2019 22:38

Yes I also think Stranglewank is a spoof. But it’s true what he says though. Any time you point out all male panels, all male journal issues, mansplaining, men being promoted over women, the answer is always ‘how do you know they don’t ID as women’? After all, IDing as a woman doesn’t require you to dress in a certain way, change your name or change your body. You can just claim to ID as female and bingo the panel is no longer all male.

The thing is that most of the woke female academics do frequently point out sexism and the problem with white men in academia but they engage in huge cognitive dissonance when doing so. That’s why, when this is pointed out to them, the only response they have is to block and label their critics hateful. I don’t know if they truly are dim or whether they realise on some level that what they are doing is not only illogical but also likely to be harmful.

Another favourite response to GC feminists from these people is ‘white feminism’. The irony is that they themselves are nearly all white, often middle-class, women, many of whom have never worked outside academia and have led a relatively sheltered existence where they have not have to deal with the full impact of patriarchy and misogyny.

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:38

You could probably tell their sex, but when has that ever affected anything in anyone's life?

Quote from 'Stranglewank Hitman'.

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:32

This is a good example of how some gender studies academics operate. When the public is no longer buying the misogynistic anti-science crap you’re peddling, smear those who disagree with you by branding them “far right”

For those who insist that the binary is so passe, they don't half insist on maintaining it in every other walk of life.

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:29

No one can refute the private horrors of personally experienced victimhood, no one can double check your evidence base as it’s personally conceived, and if you can come up with a new issue .. you’ve created a new field of which you are the expert

The tyranny of Individualism and the '15 Minutes of Fame'.

Individualism is fine, but needs to exist within a context of community and commonly held values. Sometimes the group and society is more important than the individual.

GCAcademic · 04/06/2019 22:27

Academic makes what’s actually a good point but is then forced to backtrack (and agree with someone who calls himself Stranglewank Hitman) in order to confirm her adherence to the ideology

The best thing about that is that Stranglewank Hitman is a (rather sick) spoof account, but the academic seems not to have been able to distinguish that from the genuine TRA article.

(At least I hope it's a spoof, otherwise I'll be the academic who can't tell the spoof from the real thing!)

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:22

Which was not a bad thing in the end, it was good for them in terms of their ability to refine their ideas

Again, yes! I feel there is a need to use this unfortunate opportunity as a springboard to recalibrate.

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 22:19

....and I think became almost invested in suppressing or denying physical/brain differences on ideological grounds

Yes, this is definitely my feeling. the focus became far too much on equality and 'sameness' rather than on equal value in spite of difference.

Hefzi · 04/06/2019 22:13

Ugh, don't get me started on Athena Swan and its lack of understanding that it's sex and not gender that's a protected characteristic Hmm

I think virtually all, if not all, Women's Studies departments have now either been rebranded or subsumed into something else, whether sociology or otherwise..

realdoctor · 04/06/2019 22:12

Twitter doesn't help, and my view is that academics should feel free to ignore anonymous accounts. I note, though, that the academic who was admonished by Stranglewank Hitman describes herself as a 'queer feminist', probably why she felt she had to apologise. Deborah Orr, the Guardian journalist who had a GC awakening recently, is a 'womanist' now. Better option?

Yes, Phipps's "I'm coming to get you" tone is nasty and intimidating. It's kind of sad, she is probably a nice person IRL.

Swipe left for the next trending thread