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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Encouraging "girliness" to discourage certain future problems

30 replies

FlutterShite · 04/06/2019 09:45

I'm wrestling with this and wondered what your thoughts were. My young daughter in primary school is quite robust and active - she loves the kind of activities that could potentially mark her out as "really a boy" at some point in the future, is remarked upon for climbing trees (yes, seriously!) and enjoying getting muddy and scruffed up.

Recently she'd leaned towards toys like dolls and the more princessy-type Playmobil, and has started to show an interest in more obviously feminine clothes and accessories.

Nothing wrong with that, but I understand the social and commercial influences that are steering her towards these things. However, contrary to how I would have responded a few years ago, I'm thinking I should let her go full-on "girly" to reduce the risk of her being advised at a later date that she is probably trans because she has supposedly male traits.

I'd really appreciate a feminist viewpoint on this. I don't know many women IRL who would get what I'm even on about, especially those who've waxed their girls' eyebrows and let them wear make-up since they were tiny. Am I being odd just thinking about this? Or would I be letting the side down by reinforcing the message that yes, girls should fit into these boxes?

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Italiangreyhound · 04/06/2019 19:29

Just let her be into what she is into.

I personally would encourage the 'girlie stuff', it is just stuff.

And you are right, yes, there is a real danger she may perceive herself to be a 'boy' or others may see her as 'a boy' so I'd encourage girlie stuff. BUT if she rejects the girlie stuff she can still be (and is) a girl.

JellySlice · 04/06/2019 19:24

Do both. Why shouldn't Barbie have her tea party up a tree? The Playmobile girl figurines can still build and test-drive the roller-coaster. Rollercoasters can be any colour!

Why differentiate between girlish activities and boyish ones?

newtlover · 04/06/2019 17:28

always good to encourage critical thinking- but my own kids have been known to do the eye roll and 'yes, we KNOW...."
So, I'd add to the mix a healthy dose of ridicule - not of individuals obviously- but of adverts especially and anywhere stereotypes appear- I fond humour to be a great weapon.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 04/06/2019 16:42

I was the GIRLIEST girl. Wouldn't wear trousers. Obsessed with princesses, etc.

These days it's all I can be arsed to do to get a haircut. I am the opposite of gender conforming. Kids love to play with these things, I would help her explore what she's into, it'll pass soon enough.

What I am clear on is biology. I have always been open about bodies (age appropriate, of course) and emphatic that being a boy/girl doesn't preclude you from doing or being any particular way.

I think the best protection your daughter can have is security in her own self - which I think comes from self knowledge and rock solid family support.

3dogs2cats · 04/06/2019 15:43

As someone navigating this, I find that a lot of the rogd parents tried to raise gender neutral kids , but maybe praised the. Less stereotypical choice more? I am carefully neutral about all expressed preferences now, I think the pink sparklies are littles stealth bombs to accuse me of not respecting them and the one of the lads stuff seems so forced, so I say nothing.
Police social media is my best advice. I was far too liberal to do that, and I bitterly regret that I didn’t.

EL8888 · 04/06/2019 15:41

I would leave her be. She likes what she likes and should be allowed to follow her own interests. I was quite a tomboy child but l am little bit more girly now. It’s never been a problem for me

FlutterShite · 04/06/2019 15:39

Nquartz that sounds familiar!

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FlutterShite · 04/06/2019 15:38

Thank you for these thoughtful and helpful replies. I have always reinforced the message about girls being able to achieve anything, wear anything, look as they wish - and countered the "that's a girl thing/that's a boy thing" nonsense from school etc. We're also lucky that my daughter belongs to some mixed sports clubs with great young female role models.

I agree that it's all about self-esteem, critical thinking, being open about feelings, awareness of powerful messages and so on.

Thanks.

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Beamur · 04/06/2019 15:20

I think the points about being aware of other influences is also very pertinent. Kids need to be aware that critical thinking skills are very useful in sifting the various messages out there.
As parents we will still face the possibility our children will nonetheless think differently to us.

Nquartz · 04/06/2019 12:18

And she loves climbing trees wearing her pink sparkly crocs Grin

Nquartz · 04/06/2019 12:18

As per previous comments, I just bang on with the message that DD can be anything, play with anything, wear anything.

She has been known to roll her eyes & sigh at me because she 'knows blue isn't just for boys and pink isn't just for girls' Grin

WhyNotMe40 · 04/06/2019 12:00

Personally I think the only thing you can do is foster a strong sense of self, good self esteem, and a strong wariness of social media with critical thinking skills!

FishCanFly · 04/06/2019 11:45

is remarked upon for climbing trees

i'd give a piece of my mind to someone who makes those remarks

Sunkisses · 04/06/2019 11:44

You are right to be worried! I am also mum to two DDs who I have also been brought up to reject sexist stereotypes. However a few years ago I spoke to a few parents of girls with ROGD, and they said they had brought up their daughters similarly. They ALL said the biggest thing to be aware of is the power of trans cult sites on the web - tumbler, youtube channels glamourising transition etc. I am encouraging my daughters to be proud of being girls, that girls can do anything, and that there are no such things are 'girl's thing' and 'boy's things'. I am also bringing them up with sharply developed critical thinking skills, and the knowledge that as girls they absolutely have the right to boundaries and to assert them.

TheInebriati · 04/06/2019 11:26

You cant control the other 7 billion people. You can only manage yourself and your relationship with her.

Tell her now that people are not defined by their clothes, hair, toys or other choices, and humans cannot change sex. We are born one sex and we stay the same sex throughout our lives.
Our bodies change as they age, it can be uncomfortable getting used to the changes during puberty, pregnancy and ageing. All of this is completely normal.
And tell her she can talk to you about anything.

butteryellow · 04/06/2019 11:18

I just keep harping very strongly on the "Anybody can like anything" message. It's important that they realise anybody, of any sex, can enjoy any activity.

This is what I do. I make stuff available, and if they like it, they do it, if they don't they don't (I do strongly disapprove of not even trying something out I must admit). I'm certainly not going to push them into things (OK.. piano lessons I do make them do... and nudge towards actually doing something rather than sitting home playing XBox.. so I'm not totally passive)

clitherow · 04/06/2019 10:48

I was just wondering if it was something about being encouraged to play with gender-stereotyped toys as girls that leads some women not to realise when they are having the p**s taken out of them and the care of the keratin-based structures of their bodies?

Just asking.

MaximusHeadroom · 04/06/2019 10:40

For me, feminism is about giving choices to women. If she wants to climb trees or play princesses, she should.

My DD goes from Barbie to Ninjago in the blink of an eye and so does my son.

PerkingFaintly · 04/06/2019 10:35

What Michelleoftheresistance said.

MissKittyBeaudelais · 04/06/2019 10:31

Do nothing.

As a child I was always a bit different. Played with the boys, not into dolls and Oran’s, loved tractors and tipper trucks (toys that “did” things 😊). I was always in dungarees digging in the garden, not a girlie girl at all.

I’m all grown up now. Was a professional ballet dancer (trained at same school as Darcey!) and became quite the swan after growing up as the tom boy 🤷🏻‍♀️

Each to their own!

Orchidoptic · 04/06/2019 10:27

Waxed their girls eyebrows? Bloody hell. Child cruelty 101.

RosaWaiting · 04/06/2019 10:21

I would also be saying that nothing is a girl or boy attribute.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 04/06/2019 10:13

Please don't dampen individuality by forcing stereotypes, that's not going to fix anything.

ContessaIsOnADietDammit · 04/06/2019 10:11

I just keep harping very strongly on the "Anybody can like anything" message. It's important that they realise anybody, of any sex, can enjoy any activity.

GaraMedouar · 04/06/2019 10:10

Fluttershite - I totally get what you mean, and your worries. When I was young I was a tomboy, cut my hair short, wanted to be a little brother to my big brother (only cos boys got to do better 'stuff' in my young eyes). My 8 year old DD is more stereotypically 'girly', and I'm glad of that, that we are not going to be pushed down any rabbit hole.

I am GC and a feminist, following the trans debates with despair for my DD. I encourage my DD still to think outside the box. Her older female cousin is at uni doing engineering, so DD is also interested in engineering, inventing etc. We read Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls' among others. With my older DS's we discuss the trans debate, biology etc . So I am hopefully bringing up my DD to be broad minded , thinking she is capable of non typically female jobs. That she has choices.