Beauty regime burdens

Jackie magazine was full of hair styling and make up tips but it was very light touch then

Jackie magazine was utterly awful. It was steeped in narrow, judgemental 1950s attitudes towards women and girls. I ditched it in favour of Cosmopolitan, which at that time was an intelligent and inspiring read not the pitiful rag it is now.

I have mixed feelings about this. I absolutely think though its not something where people are all making individual choices. The range of what is normal sets the stage so if it's making things very difficult, that impacts on what we do.

But at the same time, I think we likely won't ever have a scenario where people don't take any notice of how they look, not without significant effort like you see in some religious communities. And really, even those aren't totally successful. I also think you will be unlikely to see men and women taking on the exact same styles, so you won't get rid of gendered clothing or grooming practices. I don't think that's a problem though so long as neither men nor women have norms that are far out or unreasonable.

We do seem to be going through a period where girls are super conformist and made up. (Though I will say my dd doesn't really do many of the girly things - she has short hair in a boyish cut, no make-up usually, and so on, and no one has been rude about it.) I remember in the 80s there was a similar time too, big hair, heavier cosmetics. Then when I was in high school it was doc martins, no hairstyle, plaid shirts and jeans, not much make-up. Similarly the hippies then the 70s disco look. So perhaps it is just a sort of roller-coaster.
As far as current trends, I'd like to see the end of all the chemical peels, botox and the like. Contoured make up, hair and lash extensions etc. Shoes that are healthy for feet would be good. Simpler hairstyles not needing products and maybe simple make-up for events. I'd like women's shaving to end, but I'd accept just legs and armpits. I would like to see the end to more sexualised clothing

Kind of, can you get ready in 15 minutes, without spending a bundle?

I don't think it's harsh.
I have a daughter and it was important to me that I modeled how I wanted her to be around this stuff - opt-in fun but not compulsory.

I stopped shaving my legs and armpits about 8 years ago. Loads of us on here did it after a thread not long after the topic started.
Dd doesn't shave either nor her arms.
I don't know how much of that is down to my influence but I would indeed have felt hypocritical saying she couldn't do it I I did it.

I don't dye my white hairs. I like them.

I do wonder if I would succeed in more interviews if I were more feminine.
But not to the extent I'm going to go into debt over it.

But why do they want to?

I don’t dye my hair, partly but not solely for that reason.

This may sound a little harsh, but is it not a slightly hollow message to tell girls not to wear make up because thier natural appearence is beautiful, but then you go and dye your own hair because you don't like the natural grey hairs?

We all do it, I'm a big hypocrite. I really dislike it when girls add fillers to thier lips. I would never do this myself and I really wish girls didn't have the pressure to make thier lips look like 'ducks/fish'. But they would be within thier rights to tell me to get lost because I pluck my eyebrows so I don't have a monobrow.

I absolutley agree we should be urging girls and women to recognise thier own beauty and they don't have to do these grooming things to be beautiful. But if girls and women want to 'perform femininity' with grooming, then they can.

In addition to the debate about when choice isn't real choice, a lot of women are conned, in my view, in to buying extortionately priced make-up & beauty products.

There is a decent argument for the use of moisturiser, but no rational reason to spend £70 + on it.

Yet young women do it. It isn't attractive to men, so what's at play here?

From what I can see, men and boys hate the thick eyebrow look and are pretty harsh about it online.
Yet, we're still saying women do it because of men's expectations?
I think the same goes for a lot of beauty habits - the approval of other women is at play maybe more so than the approval of men.

Agree re whiteness. I have had a lot of Asian mothers (usually Pakistan origin) wanting bleaching creams for the skins of their beautiful daughters because some facial pigment unevenness made their daughters "less marriageable". Hair removal was important as well.
Perhaps my generation were atypical in rejecting beauty regimes and sexual stereotyping. My mother spent her life in high heels and had girdles and curlers in all night when she was young. She never did much make up though neither did her mother.

The women's lib movement was shit hot on all of this.
Girls work in particular explored these ideas with teenage girls. They were encouraged to go on residential trips without their make up etc.
They did physical activities. They were able to see their bodies as strong rather than decorative.

www.streetlevelphotoworks.org/event/maud_sulter_passion
Feminists of colour were also working on creating positive images of women of colour such as this photo series.

It's worth trying to get back to that way of being I think - producing our own definitions and representations.

Yes beauty is regarded as whiteness. The beauty industry is incredibly racist as well as misogynistic.

LOL, I remember the cubes of jelly advice for your nails too.

I've got a few copies of Jackie and Mandy etc and a lot of the 'beauty' tips are either low cost or free.
I remember one being 'eat a cube of jelly for glowing skin' and another was 'use shampoo the size of a 10p piece'.
Not 'get this eyeshadow pallete from urban decay or you will never find love'.
And they had posters of sports stars like Martina Navratilova on them.

The other thing is how subjective the idea of beauty is anyway.
There are notions of class bound up in it.
Sumptuary laws linked to that and linked to racism.
Eg requiring Black women in the USA to always cover their hair in public

www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/psychology-today-apologizes-black-women-less-attractive-article/351205/

This scandal shows how academics are still trying to measure attractiveness to 'prove' ideas around master race.

Women of colour are pressured to bleach their skin. They are pressured to relax their hair. They are often depicted in fashion magazines as animalistic.

I think it's far better to think of health as a goal than to conceptualize beauty as a linear scale whereby one must simply spend money and torture oneself to be 'more beautiful'.
Paris Hilton can spend money and appear to comply to a greater degree with patriarchal beauty standards.
Not everyone can.

I think there is a lot more pressure on young girls to "perform femininity" now then when I was young. Yes Jackie magazine was full of hair styling and make up tips but it was very light touch then. Also there was a feminist backlash against the beauty trade and it was debated more and androgyny more accepted without being a sign you had gender issues.. I agree with the person who said that young women are now trying to look like drag queen caricatures of femininity.
The teenage girls I know who wanted to identify as boys said they felt more comfortable and less judged as boys.
Yes males do beauty regimes too but not as much. I wonder if one of the reasons the New Romantic movement faded was that many men decided they couldn't be bothered with all that.
Why do so many women decide they can be bothered with all that?

@Erythonium

I agree, although I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

It's weird to say that women are "privileged" because apparently we can "improve" our appearance, when the real issue working to dismantle the idea that anytbody's natural appearance needs improving.

Sunkisses I couldn't agree more, I went shopping for a present for 2 year old niece un Smyths. Absolutely horrified to see the 'girls' aisle filled with make up sets, make up dolls, shopping carts and trolleys, kitchen, cashiers, hairdressing dolls. Sociap conditioning from a very very young age to engage with hair and make up and heels and jewels

Capitalism has to put everybody under pressure in order to make more money, so it's not surprising that the cosmetic and beauty industry has tried to turn its attention to men. It's still not in the same league as what they do to women though and even men's makeup and cosmetics are far more simple and straightforward than what's marketed at to women.

I missed a few things of that list:

Waxing
Shaving
Depilation
Depilatory creams
Eyebrow plucking
Eyebrow waxing
Eyebrow threading
Eyebrow pencils
Eyebrow cream
Eyebrow pomade

Apart from cosmetic surgery I think hair removal is one of the worst. I've cut my legs shaving them, literally blood running down my legs, waxing hurts like hell and eyebrow plucking makes your eyes water. I'm so glad I don't do any of that anymore, but I still feel weird about having hairy legs on show. It's hard to resist some social pressures, even though I know intellectually that men can wear shorts with hairy legs and nobody bats an eyelid.

@Loopytiles

I appreciate your point of view. And I agree, but my point. Was you can separate the pressure from the ability. The pressure women face regarding their looks I imagine is horrible, and no doubt is fueled by the makeup industry. My point was completly separate from the pressure, at least women have the ability to do more for their appearance. There are women and men who do and do not care about their appearance, my point was the men who do care (however small a group that may be, although I bet its bigger than you would think) would like to be able to wear makeup.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I watched the Mitchell and Webb one, didn't seem at all relevant to what I was saying. Brilliant debate tactic though, ad hominins and refusing to engage.

Thinking more widely, that's a really good point loopytiles about exercise being a positive thing that eg builds bone strength and lowers blood pressure.
I don't see girls doing as much sport as I feel they did when I was young.

No you keep on writing incel screeds - it's fab.

I did list plenty of resources upthread but it makes no difference to me whether you read them or agree with me. You crack on.

It’s not a privilege, it’s something many of us do because of social pressure. Men are under social pressure not to wear any.

Exercise benefits health. I prioritise time for exercise over “grooming” for this reason.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

Thanks for being so helpful. I think I missed the part where you actually explained what was dumb about what I wrote.

I spend hours in the gym every week (which I do enjoy to an extent), becuase I see that as the only real way I can improve my appearance, on top of what I listed. I would love to be able to use makeup. Realistically I can't though. That is a privellige reserved for women.

I disagree with there being little social pressure on men, yes there is definitely waaaaay more pressure on women but I have had to deal with men with eating disorders, depression, substance misuse and everything in between because they feel that they cannot or do not fit in. The mens beauty industry is expanding rapidly, throw in the male models in magazines - who are also airbrushed and with plenty of make up on - shaving, waxing, creams, deodorants, clothes, working out etc. They do not have it as hard as us women to bow down to social norms but they are feeling pressure

' I don't think we should overlook that being able to improve your appearance is in some sense a privellige'
Gorgeous insight there.

What did you think of the link to Mitchell and Webb? Is their point that women are privileged?