Beauty regime burdens

I think whenever there are conversations like this, the number one thing people struggle to let go of is shaving legs and armpits. Lots of people would rather not bother and know its a learned preference, but can't bring themselves not to.
A big part of it is social reasons but what is maybe more interesting is that often its just such a strongly felt aesthetic preference of the woman herself. I'm in that boat, I'm fully aware of its subjective quality and think it would be better to do without it, but I just don't want to in the end. I often don't wear make-up, or do complicated hair stuff, and I stopped dyeing my hair. But I haven't given up shaving and I almost can't see it ever happening.

I've wondered why it seems to have such a strong reaction.

This was the range she was selling:

www.marksandspencer.com/l/beauty/filorga?extid=ps_ggl_UK_BG_Beauty_Brands_Filorga&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwPu5t4qs3AIVAQAAAB0BAAAAEAAYACAAEgJVzfD_BwE

That's a lot of products for women's "wrong" faces.

Did a man really show up to this thread and tell us what beauty practices women should or shouldn't undertake in order for him to find them attractive? Incredible.

Thanks for giving us a display of that particular male belief that you're all judges in a beauty contest Caucho, and you get to comment when women aren't living up to your standards. Yuck.

Back to the thread, I was in M&S today and there was a beauty saleswoman flogging extremely expensive facecream (£60). She was telling the woman she was talking to that it would "reshape your face". You can't escape the beauty imperative anywhere, even in Markies. Selling women magic creams that do absolutely nothing, all because we've been taught to not like our faces as they are.

You need to exercise and eat healthily basically. At some level that's not very exciting and takes time and means that you have to deprive yourself of eating junk food or drinking too much

Well slightly changing the subject, but eating healthily is delicious and junk food generally tastes foul. Unfortunately junk food is more available to the poor and you need more exposure to good cooking to be able to eat healthily, which is also a luxury.

Thinking about what someone posted about valuing healthy bodies - I sort of think this where some of it started.

We do value healthy looking bodies. It's just that getting and maintaining a healthy body takes, effort and discipline. You need to exercise and eat healthily basically. At some level that's not very exciting and takes time and means that you have to deprive yourself of eating junk food or drinking too much.

Then cosmetic surgery became affordable for so many people. So there was a way to maintain a healthy looking body but without the work. Liposuction, implants, sculpting abs, face lifts, tummy tucks etc.

But then it went further and became more extreme.

So I guess we do value healthy looking bodies but we don't want to do what is necessary to maintain it and take short cuts.

I admit to only having had three of those - Leg hair removal, Underarm hair removal, Body contouring underwear I still do the first two, and the third was years ago for a wedding when I was heavier than I wanted to be and bought some shapewear to hide the flab. Not a pleasant experience and I haven't repeated it. Did the job though!

Remember when Princess Diana was a beauty icon - I had that haircut as a kid, it was very popular.

Lots of us had this hairstyle. Lots of us also had "the purdy" in the 70s.

Isn't that the key? These styles became a trend because women and girls were following a celebrity trend. Isn't this what long hair is now? It's a trend copied from celebrities.

Another will be along soon, it isn't a new thing.

Good for them

Looking up Katie Price and WAGS

I think this is very dependant on your influences. I have never looked up any WAGS or Katie Price or the Kardashians or anyone like that. My nieces, God Daughters and friends daughters are not interested at all in any of them.

I'm a bit surprised that covering up grey hair has only been mentioned a couple of times. Surely that's the biggest pressure - and burden - of them all? And for the industry, the longest gravy train?

The news coverage of Katie Price and any number of WAGS far outweighs that of Malala! It's pretty obvious who our society is generally more interested in.

Agree

Not even remotely agreeing then

I'm presuming we're all on the same page with 'looking up to' meaning 'being a bit obsessed by' as opposed to holding deep respect and appreciation of

Why would I be on the same page with that? "Looking up to" doesn't remotely mean obsessed by.

[look up to someone]toadmireandrespect someone

Fig.to view someone with respect and admiration.Bill really looks up to his father.Everyone in the class looked up to the teacher

To Lass not Dey

I'm presuming we're all on the same page with 'looking up to' meaning 'being a bit obsessed by' as opposed to holding deep respect and appreciation of.

But you're soooo going to disagree with me about this rather than just say 'oh, I see what you're saying' [yawn]

Malala gets masses of press coverage, all of it positive. WAGS are sneered at as is Katie Price.

That's true, but are they really looking up to them?

Eh?

The news coverage of Katie Price and any number of WAGS far outweighs that of Malala! It's pretty obvious who our society is generally more interested in.

Why do we as a society look up to page 3 models or wags rather than women that have actually done important things like Malala etc

Eh? Is this comment meant to be a joke? Nobody looks up to page 3 girls (do they still exist?) or WAGS. The term WAG is so obviously intended to be dismissive. Malala has a Nobel prize.

I suppose people like to make the best of themselves, and the aesthetic changes all the time. However, the title of the thread contains the word burden. That is the crux. Lots of people (mainly women) go through convoluted regimes to maintain something that conforms with what society expects. And that becomes burdensome, time consuming, ultimately pointless and bloody expensive. We talk about the gender pay gap but if you factor in all the stuff that we do to "improve" ourselves, that gap is actually a lot wider.

Everybody can opt out of this in minor (don't shave your bits, pits or legs) or major ways (never wash - not recommended).

Really despair about the amount of shite young women are sticking on themselves, or paying for unneeded cosmetic procedures. It's a weird aesthetic and hopefully one that will fall out of fashion soon.

To some people make up/cosmetic surgery etc is a hobby. To others it is masking a lot of self loathing. Most of us fall in between. As you get older you seem to need to do more, but from my own experience it matters less. I do less now - and going through a convoluted regime of grooming would indeed be a burden.

I know, I know - "my utopian pipe dream is valid"

I don't think it's invalid, or even totally a pipe dream. I think we've moved closer and farther away from what you describe at various times, so its not like there is nothing to be done around it.

To some extent, yeah, even if we know real glowing skin is a sign of health, there may always be some pull towards creating that artificially if you haven't lucked out in that department. Even the natural "hippy" look could actually be a lot of work - my mother used to tell me about trying to iron her hair. But we instead seem to put a lot of value on explicit artificiality. Maybe as a sign of wealth?

I think in some ways our cultural landscape isn't well suited to creating that kind of sense of valuing what is more natural and age appropriate though. We have a disordered way of thinking about youth and age for one thing. All the youth culture of the 20th century has been n many ways toxic, and we often aren't willing to admit it. We might see it in fashion, but its in other things as well, I think for example of the comments you see about how old people voted to leave the EU and they are just too old to understand or too selfish or too bigoted. I don't think I've ever heard someone say, well, maybe there is something that older people see in this that requires more experience, not even as a possibility. It's just taken for granted that youth is progressive and sees the way of the future more clearly.

I would also say that putting a rein on people and societies more base impulses usually seems to require some kind of accepted set of values around the those impulses. If you don't want a population that puts a lot of emphasis on personal appearance, vanity if you like, you need to discourage it in the culture and encourage and support modesty. And that kind of passing on of social values is usually done through things like common stories, myths, social practices, taboos.

I don't know if we have a lo of social capital of the right kind. We try and promote ideas in school when we want to get kids to believe them but generally I don't think its effective. Especially not when there is so much pushing them in the other direction.

I’m not an expert on make up but always preferred my girlfriend make up light compared to when she dolled herself up for a girls night out. I’m sure she wasn’t make up free completely when I found her more attractive but wasn’t particularly noticeable if she was wearing it compared to looking like Michael Jackson. And she thought the latter was dressing up and making an effort to look good - nuts

I hate this part of society. I've always felt judged on my looks above anything else. That shouldn't be right. Why do we as a society look up to page 3 models or wags rather than women that have actually done important things like Malala etc
I have young adult DDs and it makes me sad he pressure on them is even worse than in my day. I was called ugly as a teen by many teenage boys. It was very humiliating. That's when I started wearing make up..

One example I could come up with is Katie Price / Jordan who when initially hit the public eye as page 3 model was genuinely a really nice pretty girl in my eyes and then ruined herself with gigantic fake tits and all the other things discussed like lip fillers etc

As a man I don’t expect most of this stuff and find the Essex girl type regime very unattractive. Not to be completely woke and hypocritical I’m not a fan of hairy legs and arms on women. I suppose I’m just conditioned to not like it and women have been doing this for a long time now. But the eyebrows, heavy make up, big lips and nail stuff is a new phenomenon and I just don’t find it attractive on a personal level and most of my mates feel the same. It’s one of those ones where it’s the women driving it rather than the blokes