A pleasant surprise

Btw I’m not a transwoman so I dunno why you’re talking to me like I am. I enjoy female-only spaces. I want them to be inclusive. This doesn’t infringe on any of my rights.

@Justhadathought your third paragraph is spot on.

let’s lay off the semantic arguments that are stressing you and go back to those assaults by “t*rfs”, Zoe. when and where did they happen?

Please don’t delete me for the t-word, MNHQ, i’m hoping that by using zoe’s own terminology she’ll understand what i’m asking her, as she didn’t seem able to respond when I used the term GC feminist.

I've aimed it at you a few times.

It has been making me chortle, so it's not been wasted, darling!

But some of us, I'm afraid, are just playing their own game of Mad Libs.

You really don't what? Make sense?

Yay! We Are Pack!!!

Swear words don't get you banned on MN. We're pretty robust on here.

Basically, if everything was as simple as you would like to believe it is, there wouldn’t BE transpeople. There wouldn’t be queer people either. Just heterosexual cave people hunting and gathering along biological sex divides

What most of us here believe is that human beings are muli-faceted creatures, often of our own design and desire. What we object to is rigid gender constructs. What you have described above seems pretty bleak in terms of human potential. Do you really believe that only trans people are capable of variant and rich expression of self?

No! Neither do most of us here. We believe that regardless of your biological sex or sexual preference, that you should be free to express yourself in any way you like, so long as it does not harm other people or wilfully impinge on their rights.

Feminists had long been supportive of gay men, and of those 'old school' transexuals who mostly just wanted to get on quietly with their lives. Everybody here believes in live and let live. the difference is you are seeking to assert your identity in contrast to reality; to the condition that women find themselves in as a biological class. to impose yourself into our spaces. to eradicate the language we use to describe our experience. To make illegal our right to name ourselves, and to identify that you are not like us in this very particular way.

I really don’t, I hate arguments, it’s all very tiresome but for some reason I am stubborn today and have been replying to the whole pack on my own. I think I might need someone to cut me off!

Maybe I’ll post a bunch of swear words in my next post so I get banned!

I doubt that Zoe will take that on board, jacky. She’ll have been told that the right thing to do is “get ahead of the law”, and sub in “gender identity” wherever it seems like a good fit for situations and concepts it was never intended for.

That was a highlight Humber it got a bit repetitive but the last page it has upped its game

poor Zoe

coming up against some well informed and smart women

where's that sense of mystical kinship now eh?

quick, one of the male lurkers fart so we can all roll our eyes and re-establish that we're female

I mean how a person can actually type that......

female: noun. Used by incels to deny some people’s existence.

noun: a word to identify a class of things, used by women who refuse to behave.

Hahahaaaa! Sorry I’m still amusing myself here! I’ll catch up in a minute!

U.K. Law classes transphobia as a hate crime and forbids hateful acts based on someone’s gender identity. Pretty explicit.

This is blatantly false. UK law has no reference to or legal definition of "transphobia" or "gender identity" anywhere.

Further, the terms "gender", "transgender" and "gender expression" are not referred to or defined in any UK law.

Maybe the rapport is “a difference from men”. But if I go down that road I’ll probably start coming out with things that sound misandrist so had better not.

ah, you mean you might say some things that are sexist? perish the though!

the protected characteristic is “gender reassignment”,not “gender identity”. perhaps you ought to read the actual law, as many of here have actually done?

Feminist Theory is in the same family, all types of literary theory contain that word. It just means potential lens through which to interpret a text.

I thought I'd pop back and see how things are going.

I see the last few pages have been a dance around the inability to define what a woman is without resorting to stereotypes or a circular description.

I always enjoy this particular linguistic dance

No no no no no! Show me.. show me that law... from a legal source not via some organisations translation...

Can you stop saying T*s

Either grow up and type it or figure out some other phrase

Its so precious....

Ah, second wave, 70s, Women’s Studies brand of feminism. That explains a lot. Greer et al. I find her work dated to the point of cringe although I admire her energy and a large selection of her more empowering viewpoints.

Btw I have no idea what some of your acronyms and references mean

Educating yourself and doing some serious research might help you understand the issues as they are being described, then. There seems to be a huge reluctance, however, for TRAS to do so. Meanwhile, most of here have read Judith Butler and understand ( if that is possible) the wilful denseness of Queer Theory. And the clue is in the word 'Theory'.

U.K. Law classes transphobia as a hate crime and forbids hateful acts based on someone’s gender identity. Pretty explicit.

I literally have parts of my degree in a) language and b) feminism’s approach to gender, so I’m good re: my use of these terms, but thanks for your concern

Long before your degree was imagined, there was such a thing as Women's Studies That's where most of us here learned about gender and its repressive, constricting edicts. You are simply taking us back to what we sought to under-mine with all your talk of gender.
Gender is not the same as sex. You don't need to pretend to be the opposite sex in order to express your gender. Just be yourself. Then we could all find peace with you.

I used to teach English, and the word 'literally' is used far too often. It does nothing to add to any sense that what you are talking about is real or has actually happened.

You know that the word “t*rf” is prohibited under the talk guidelines of the feminist board, yes? you’re starring it out, so I know you know, but you can’t help yourself using it anyway. why is that? why can’t you engage without name calling?

when you overhear a man say something douchey I didn't know Sally was American!