A pleasant surprise

Your amended sentence doesn’t even make sense by the way...

I will absolutely not change my mind and become bigoted, no. Spaces calling themselves female spaces are only truly such if they include all women. I would not feel safe around gender essentialist fundamentalists/extremists who seek to exclude and isolate transwomen, perpetuating the hatred and danger they constantly face. Feminism needs to be intersectional to have a positive effect. It’s no good only arguing for feminism that benefits white middle-class straight women. That is rather throwing all other women under a bus for personal gain. Feminists and women really need to start lifting each other up rather than shaming each other for not being the kind of woman you think they’re supposed to be. Let people live.

Well you get the gist...

Insisting that transwomen are notwomen is the evidence of hate-red of women and it is rife - here--.

Fixed it for you

Insisting that transwomen are not women is the evidence of hate and it is rife here.

Material objective reality is not ‘hate’. We don’t need to ‘insist’ anything, it’s factual. Males cannot be women. A woman is an adult human female. You can rant and rage at that all you want, it doesn’t change facts. Feminists don’t prioritise males in their feminism, so I don’t really understand how you can say with any kind of authenticity, that you are feminist, given your disgusting contributions here.,

Oh please! You asked up thread if any of us had trans friends. If you weren't so new here you'd know tha the answer to that is a fairly resounding yes. It is also possible that an acual trans person is one of the posters responding to you - there are a few and they don't always feel the need to share their trans status!

The problem is that you are were many of us were a few years ago, me included: Be nice, inclusive, transwomen may not actually be real women but it doesn't hurt to include them. We all rubbed along, women pretended not to notice, swallowed their feelings of unease, and nobody rocked the boat.

Then came the TRAs. They changed things dramatically. Some women pointed it out about a decade ago and most people reacted as you are now. But over the last few years thing have changed. Aggressive transwomen have made huge incursions, done much damage to women in female spaces. That is real women being hurt, physically, by men claiming to 'feel like a woman'.

So no. I won't feel ashamed at saying, consistently and ever more loudly, transwomen are not women and cannot be given free access to female spaces. This has to be a discussion, not a fait accompli so shut the fuck up, stop throwing out the insults and threats and start talking.

You see, it is not me, or posters like me, who are partially informed or who should feel ashamed of our views. You may, over the next couple of months, if you stick around and read and try to digest what is really being said here, come to change your mind.

If you look through many FWR threads you will see many posters, me included, post exactly as you are now. So I know some of how you feel, what you are thinking, why you are thinking it. Then you will see a different thread... a lightbulb moment. I wonder what it will take for you. Karen White doesn't seem to have, so what will it take? How many women will be hurt, raped by transwomen, reported in headlines, discussed here, before you will stop seeing any discussion of that as transphobic?

Oooh im doing that as i type spartacus

Not such a pretty mug though

(Oh, and nothing extreme about a bit of pegging 😜)

I know exactly what my words mean thank you and I stand by all of them including the censored ones.

Insisting that transwomen are not women is the evidence of hate and it is rife here. I don’t see how that point could be any clearer. You are denying people’s existence as what they are.

And I have as many transmen friends as I do transwomen friends thank you very much and I care about the nonsense they go through as well. Interestingly Margaret Attwood’s observation of ‘men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them’ maps pretty well onto transpeople as well. My transmen friends seem to have a higher instance of ridicule in their encounters of bullying, while my transwomen friends have more intimidating encounters with risk of violence. As with gender-based violence generally, it’s women who are statistically in more danger. It’s as if the word feminism is acknowledging that women are disproportionately affected by archaic views of gender - fancy that!

I’m just baffled people can be proud of their transphobic views rather than ashamed. Once again I wonder what joy it can bring you to tear others down, especially other women. This kind of thing is exactly why the only partially-informed are reluctant to call themselves feminists.

birdsdestiny It may be a slightly extreme branch of feminism.

Is that a new form of feminism then.

Lol *centering, not entering. 😬

your hatred of our trans sisters Your priorities are showing there, Zoecb. Only concerned about males who identify as trans, I see. No concerns for females who identify as trans? Trendy feminism, forever entering the males.

Zoe. If you are going to come on here, you really need to be able to make a clear point, based in fact and not call other posters nasty names.

Simply repeating that we are all hateful transphobes, with absolutely no base on which to make the accusation, just won’t wash. You aren’t convincing anyone.

Shall we get back to the thread?

He said it wasn't a disciplinary matter as there were no personally offensive Tweets but that the Tweets definitely overstepped the bounds of what a serving police officer should be saying on social media. A conversation was in order and he would be talking to the officer soon.

(PS Your appropriation is showing Oppressors shouting DARVO - gaslighting I'd kindly advise you to stop using those words and phrases until you really know what they mean, rather than flinging them at the fan that I previously mentioned!)

Oh. Were you deleted for jovial pop culture references, you think?

Theres a handy pinned post at the top of FWR with some terms you can't use. Wasn't our idea, but if you want to play in MNHQ's sandbox, you have to obey the rules like we have to.

I hope the actual hate speech against trans people going on here gets addressed by authorities on the side of the law with more clout than a Mumsnet moderator some day.

I sincerely hope you find some peace and understanding to melt your hatred of our trans sisters (the actual victims/survivors here) at some point. I’m an informed feminist woman and will always speak out against misogyny for the good of ALL women. And all humans for that matter, as misogynistic/anti-women/gatekeeping ideologies hurt everybody from an overall societal point of view. I wish more women would fight for all women and not against women they demand to exclude!

LOL I got censored again! Twenty years or so on the internet and this website is the first to ever censor me :-D

Since apparently jovial popular culture references and long words describing important things are described as “word salad” (also, oppressors shouting DARVO when someone stands up for minorities? Not a very subtle gaslighting attempt), I’ll give up on trying to educate about nuance or the honesty of calling a garden implement a section of grass (slurs are only slurs when used against characteristics that are not a choice by the way) and repeat the point that brought me to this thread:

A police officer supporting the equalities act and denouncing bigotry is not something one gets into trouble for, it’s literally part of the job.

Well, this is a fresh new sound.

Ah, spoke too soon. I wouldn't report, personally. Always useful to see that point of view writ large, all over a board mainly consisting of women fighting for women!

And of course, that post is unlikely to disappear with the speed of others.

Mainly, I would suspect, due to the fact that many of us don't report, as it's more useful to have those types of posts up, regardless of whether they break the current FWR guidelines, as they show this up for what it is.

Monitors, you'd better get reporting this one quickly, it's breaking guidelines...uh, oh, yep, not those ones!

So I see Zoe has no actual points to make or a cohesive argument then? Just frothing.

Projection, much.

I know, I know Spartacus . I just wanted to collect the word bullshit bingo together so if that post is deleted other's know it wasn't because of some crusading truth that Mumsnet accidentally shut down, but was just a collection of attack-words on women here.

Oh SpartacusAutisticusAHF, does that come in red?