A pleasant surprise

Most of us on here have already changed our minds, thanks. We've going from happily accepting that TWAW to having our eyes and minds opened and not being able to go along with the gaslighting, cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty, and erosion of female boundaries any longer. When you grow out of your naive students' union, man-pleasing liberal feminism, we'll be waiting.

Maybe I have higher levels of empathy than average, I don’t know

Or perhaps you're really gullible, looking at it from another angle.

I really hope you get some life experience that opens your mind.

Because fantasy/sci fi movie plots are the very best way of explaining to women that men are women if they really believe they are...

I will stick to genuinely intersectional feminism, ta, that centres women, with an awareness of how other forms of oppression can affect them, like racism and poverty.

You can go be nice to the sad men if you want. It won't ever be feminism to campaign for the rights of men just because they like femininity.

Also why on earth would you assume people of certain religions are transphobic? I know Muslims and Jews who are trans and none I know, as far as I know, are transphobic. (Obviously I don’t exactly hang out with any fundamentalists.) What a weird thing to bring into it.

There is no such thing as being female in your mind. Stop talking shit and peddling regressive sexist stereotypes. When you grow up and gain some experience of life, you will be embarrassed at yourself.

Good job transwomen aren’t “males” then! Problem solved.
Thanks for the cake emoji? I like cake...

A trans person is someone who is not the gender they were assigned at birth and experiences dysphoria being referred to and treated as that a member of that gender which they do not feel correctly describes them.

For example I was assigned female at birth and am lucky enough that I feel quite happily female in my mind, body etc.

I’d feel extremely distressed if I woke up one day and everyone started seeing me as a man and calling me one. Even if it was a supernatural movie where I got struck by some magic lightning and grew a penis and a beard, I’d be horrified but I’d still be a woman in my mind and personality and all the places where identity actually resides. Maybe I have higher levels of empathy than average, I don’t know. I just don’t see why people should be punished and bullied (and frighteningly often, beaten and murdered) for the way they were born. Live and let live.

Transphobia my arse. Muslim women, jewish women and most other adult human females who rightly dont want/cant have men in their spaces = transphobia. Yeah.

Most of us are long past giving a crap about accusations of transphobia.

Yep. Don't give a shit. The term is levelled at 99% of the population, including trans people themselves. In the end, there will be only one person left in the country who is able to smugly pronounce themselves a trans ally, because everyone else will have been denounced. They probably won't even be trans themselves.

I’m just baffled people can be proud of their transphobic views rather than ashamed

Most of us are long past giving a crap about accusations of transphobia. It's a word that is now emptied of any rational meaning, a word that simultaneously means both everything and nothing at the same time.

Spaces calling themselves female spaces are only truly such if they include all women.

Female spaces cease to be female spaces the moment any male enters them. Deep down all TRA's know this hence the all the violent and misogynistic bile they spout towards women. They can't escape from their own cognitive dissonance no matter how hard they try, it's as futile as trying to escape from your own shadow.

To zoecb

Far from fact. More like fiction.

Also this is a bit baffling

Spaces calling themselves female spaces are only truly such if they include all women.

Female only spaces are only female only if they only include female people. As soon as you add even one male, the space is not female only. Obviously.

I am also wodnering which definition of 'trans' you use? As Stonewalls actually covers half the women on this board. And often, it turns out when people argue so passionately they think trans means transsexual, which it really does not anymore, hell even transsexuals are transphobic if they do not want to shit all over womens rights.

I’m just baffled people can be proud of their transphobic views rather than ashamed.

Caring about womens rights = transphobia these days. So going by that definition, I am damn proud to be 'transphobic'. God forbid anyone actually consider women (adult human females) at all as thats just awful awful transphobia, and maybe transmisogyny which is of course 100x worse and more common than actual misogyny.

Hate speech indeed, to agree that its impossible to change sex and..well males are male and females are female

Did I miss a tissue referece? Blech!

Goes = go

I will absolutely not change my mind and become bigoted, no.

Funnily enough, I view people who believe that women are nothing more than a wish, a desire or a thought in a man’s head, as misogynistic and bigoted. It ignores the reality of the physical changes, harassment, sexual assault/rape, sexualised view of, and patriarchal control many young girls goes through, before they become full grown females. It removes our right to have our female reality recognised.

Feminists and women really need to start lifting each other up rather than shaming each other for not being the kind of woman you think they’re supposed to be. Says the peson shouting at feminists for not being the right kind of feminist

Let people live. tell that to the many, recenty documentad cases of woemn being raped and murdered by transwomen. And when you find a recently documented case of a transwoman being raped and murdered by a woman we can talk again...

Male and female are bloody nouns! What the fuck is with the incel shite?

And that bollocks about feminism being white MC etc because it isn't intersectional.. cos it doesn' accept men as being women. Yet more of that word salad!

Feminism doesn't need to be anything. There are many forms of feminism, always have been. GC feminists are responding directly to the known, clear and present danger of accepting your ideology that transwomen are women.

Currently the main brand of feminsim on MN is GC feminism. That has not always been the case. Mainly because women are capable of thinking and responding to direct threats, wherever they come from!

while my transwomen friends have more intimidating encounters with risk of violence

Have a bit of a think about where that violence comes from, and who enacts it.

I can tell you now, it is not from Mumsnet, nor from radical or gender-critical feminists.

Violence perpetrated on transwomen is from men. And men who see these transwomen as faulty men (not women) who challenge these men's fragile notions of masculinity (toxic masculinity) so much that they need to destroy the person who challenges them.

Women are murdered by male intimate partners/ex-partners/relatives at the rate of, on average, two women a week. Every year - see Counting Dead Women

I know I should grey rock, but I’ll bite, at least for now....
Zoecb is Karen White a woman? Aimee Challenor? Jess Bradley? They all identify as such and if transwomen are women as you claim then they must be. In which case my next question is....how do we keep women safe from these “women” who funnily enough behave exactly like men, right down to the use of the penis as a weapon and silencing other women? How do we protect women as a class from men as a class if we include people who are indistinguishable from those men except for how they choose to see themselves and include them in the group “women” instead?

It’s no good only arguing for feminism that benefits white middle-class straight women.

Nobody is doing that. I’m Māori. Many women on this board are lesbian. Many are WOC. None of us are disadvantaged by female only spaces.

Don’t use women of colour and lesbians to support your prioritisation of men.

Your last comment makes no sense at all. It is a load of nonsense.

Also it’s really unsettling to hear the use of ‘males’ and ‘females’ in their noun form in the kind of syntax I only ever see used by incels :-/