People who are anti abortion from conception, how do you feel about IVF?

There are plenty of services that the nhs offers that aren't life saving, should we cut them all?

I believe in a woman's right to abortion.
I believe in a woman/mans right to access Ivf.

The vast majority of Ivf cycles results in no embryos "wasted".

Plenty of people don’t have children or limit the number of children they have because they can’t afford them, regardless of IVF.

I've always thought the NHS should be about saving lives, but then only people who have a spare 10k lying around can afford IVF - social engineering?

IVF isn't saving lives. If NHS spending needs to be cut in my opinion IVF should be at the top of the list.

They’re embryos, not gametes.

I find it concerning that embryos from IVF can be experimented on

So do I. That is revolting actually.

I agree that id expect someone who is pro ivf would be pro choice around abortion

Well I'm pro- choice on abortion and vehemently opposed to IVF.

I would guess there are a fair number like that who would think of themselves as pro-life but be ok with IFV

I'm the opposite. A pregnant woman's rights comes before a foestus' but creating embryos to order and dispose is not acceptable for me.

An gamete doesn’t count as conception thpughdoes it? I thought conception was fertilisation plus implantation. Not pro life though...

I find it concerning that embryos from IVF can be experimented on.

An embryo that is outside of a woman’s body surely falls under a different set of ethics, in the sense that society should have a say in what happens to it?

I agree that id expect someone who is pro ivf would be pro choice around abortion.

The OP asked specifically about people who see conception as the relevant beginning of life, and yes, that would mean no IFV either. I think there are plenty of people though, maybe even most people, who don't worry about embryos in very early days as with IFV, but do begin to object to abortion, or at least some abortions, later on in the pregnancy. I would guess there are a fair number like that who would think of themselves as pro-life but be ok with IFV.

In terms of IVF, it's not pro-lifers place to deny women the chance to become parents.

Well its not pro lifers place to tell any woman she HAS to have a baby either. But they have no issue doing that. I really really don't get why these people can't just..well not have abortions themselves and leave it at that rather than trying to control others. If I dislike something, I avoid it, I don't petition to stop others doing it just because I disagre with it, thats stupid!

Don't many contraceptives work to prevent a fertilised egg implanting? What about those?

Yup, most pro lifers I have seen arguing are also very against contraception, and have particular hate for the morning after pill. So basically, they want noone to use contraception but also noone to ever terminate. I wonder how they would take it if women just said 'alrght then' and stopped having sex completely.

I believe in a woman’s right to say no to sex, I believe in a woman’s right to an abortion, and I believe in a woman’s right to have IVF if she wants it. Many people who don’t believe in one of the above tend to have dodgy attitudes to the other stuff too.

I also can understand being against both abortion and ivf, there I a logic to this.
Having seen what these early stage embryos look like I find it very hard to get too emotional about them. I desperately wanted mine to turn into dc but all they have in the beginning is the potential, they really are just a little cluster of cells.
We ended up with 2 viable embryos and a 3rd that was too low grade to use. So we never had to decide what to do with any spare.
Also wanted to add that we had to fund our ivf as it has always been a post code lottery.

I've been through IVF: contrary to popular belief, it's not all funded by the NHS and many people have to fund it themselves. This makes me uneasy: I've always thought the NHS should be about saving lives, but then only people who have a spare 10k lying around can afford IVF - social engineering? We were lucky that we could.

Before we started the process, from everything I'd read we expected to get 4 embryos if we were lucky. Instead we got double digits in the freezer. Now after several miscarriages I don't know if I can face another round: should I be donating the spare embryos to other couples, and potentially have to see my and my husband's children as adults?

Interestingly, DM was against IVF right from when it started - her views were very much the same as yours Lass. Then I needed it and overnight her views changed.

I can completely understand why people are ethically against it, just as I can understand why they're against abortion. I don't think anyone goes into IVF to destroy life, whether they do or not of course depends on whether you think that life begins the minute the sperm and the egg join.

I agree that id expect someone who is pro ivf would be pro choice around abortion. Just because someone is infertile doesn't necessitate another woman to go through pregnancy and have a baby, it isn't a zero sum game.

I also haven't said that anyone is entitled to parenthood, that's not my view. Infertility is a medical condition and hugely affects mental health so I'm probably as offended by your suggestion that it's a rights based issue as you are with my wording of "creating extras". Part of the process has to be to distance ones self to the possibility that each embryo is a life. Every miscarriage and failed transfer is a reminder of the potential future that will never be.

We very much disagree but I'm interested to hear the points of view. Should we be naming the embryos and providing funerals when they fail? If they're a life, should they have legal documentation? Is there a question of fault and blame if a miscarriage takes place and that life is lost? I have a lot of questions!

The OP was asking for pro- lifers' views. I don't think anyone has said they are anti-abortion.

It seems logical to me that if one is opposed to abortion one should as also be opposed to IVF

I know someone who has successfully used IVF and is vehemently opposed to abortion for the reasons given by a poster on here. She went through invasive and costly procedures and does not think other women should have the right to get rid of a baby , as she sees it, when she had to suffer so much , as she sees it to get one.

We're talking about people who value life so much that they're willing to go through a hugely invasive and financially costly process to have a baby

Nobody has to have a baby. It isn't valuing life- it's to satisfy a want.

"Creating extras" is such a flippant way to describe it.

I don't think infertile people deliberately create loads of embryos knowing they'll throw them away. I'd say having 'extras' in the freezer is fairly rare given the stats. People usually hope they'll manage to create 1-2 embryos of they're lucky, and that they'll use up everything they manage to create. Not every transfer leads to a pregnancy. We're talking about people who value life so much that they're willing to go through a hugely invasive and financially costly process to have a baby.

I'm not a pro- lifer , I am pro choice on abortion. There is no right to be a parent.

I'm not in favour of abortion but a woman has a right to choose one though I wouldn't. In terms of IVF, it's not pro-lifers place to deny women the chance to become parents.

I have always thought IVF was morally repugnant and unjustifiable and the posts on here have firmed that up.

As far as I am concerned life , or the potential for life, starts at conception. In the case of an unwanted or unviable pregnancy the women's interest trumps the foetus. I have no difficulty supporting the right to abortion. Abortion is the lesser of 2 bad things and is in the woman's interest.

However deliberately creating large numbers of embryos knowing the majority will be destroyed to me seems callous and was the first step into the Frankenstein territory referred to in the womb transplant thread.

Following with interest as this is what I started thinking about when reading about what's going on in the states. We ended up with 5 frozen embryos and after two transfers (single embryos each time) that failed, i fell pregnant on the third try. So we have two frozen embryos left - would i be expected to transfer them all if life has begun for those little guys too?

Also, we actually had 10 to freeze but did genetic testing on them and threw away 5 as they had chromosomal abnormalities. I guess that'd be out too? Crazy to think of a world that I'd have to transfer embryos that would lead to miscarriage and possibly complications, or worse would lead to death within days of birth etc.

@KennDodd That is why there are so many Embryo Adoption agencies in the US run by the church.

But interestingly none of the anti abortion legislation in the USA impacts ivf embryos because that situation doesn't involve a woman being pregnant. Which seems a an illogical reason to exclude it. It is fine to destroy the embryos if they are frozen, or in a Petrie dish but not in a uterus?