The 12th law of misogny

If anyone is choosing to misrepresent I think it's you tbh

I beg your fucking pardon!

Yes, I can see it's an issue, when wandering into the Feminism and Women's Rights section of Mumsnet, that you might look around at the female centred discussion and think "They really don't think enough about how tough the blokes have it, here. Not enough places in RL and online are considering men and their needs. I think we should refocus them."

I'm not sure if this was intended as irony/sarcasm but there is some truth in it - although I'm not trying to refocus/mansplain (hate that phrase!) anything, just giving a counter point.

This thread is about a FEMALE issue, PND. We discuss FEMALE concerns on this board.

So does male depression not affect anyone other than the man, particularly in the case of a new father who is needed to be well in order to support the new mother and their child? A mentally well father offers no benefit to a new mum, no?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

I'm taking offence because I haven't seen 1 post on here saying that men's mental health should be prioritized over women's, or minimising the effects of PND over any other form of depression. Any of us that are recognising that there is a need for partners to receive treatment for depression occuring after birth have all said that it is important and beneficial for both partners well being and for the benefit of the family unit, but not at a detriment to services provided for mothers.

How is that in any way centering men over women? If anyone is choosing to misrepresent I think it's you tbh.

To be clear, I'm not trying to blame anybody on this thread (so maybe I should just shut up and stop derailing 😳), but it frustrates me that the only place where I can discuss these issues (let's face it, bodybuilding.com and pistonheads won't cut it lol) and where posters seem to understand my point is also one of the places where there seems to be the most resistance to discussing men's issues. There really is no male equivalent to feminism and men's rights activism is a dirty word nowadays conjuring images of misogynistic neckbeards (wish we could reclaim the phrase. Most people are more indifferent than resistant, but many on here understand it but are resistant.

Yes, I can see it's an issue, when wandering into the Feminism and Women's Rights section of Mumsnet, that you might look around at the female centred discussion and think "They really don't think enough about how tough the blokes have it, here. Not enough places in RL and online are considering men and their needs. I think we should refocus them."

I meant that you are assuming that posters on this thread are being mean because of what posters on another thread said

As for the appeal for understanding for family-killers..... 🙄 There is almost invariably a history of domestic violence, and for some reason the man's control is slipping, or something is going to come out which will shame him.

This thread is about a FEMALE issue, PND. We discuss FEMALE concerns on this board.

So you are assuming that people are saying what you THINK they are saying

Taking the examples I've given above, how else could they be interpreted? I'm doubtful the poster who wanted men to pay more tax was suggesting it should be reinvested in services to help men.

I didn't mean for that post to sound as aggressive as it reads

Cross post

I dont know if mine comes across as aggressive but if it did then i meant it (at the time)

Did you read the OP? There’s a link to a dad blog, a dad who is asking for this and says he suffered PND.

Yes thanks I did read the OP, did you? Only I would be very surprised that one blog post caused a health authority to make such huge funding decisions.

Obviously I am missing something (otherwise your sarcastic remark is completely out of order) but could you show me where in the OP that it says that blog post was the cause of the funding decision in the OPs department?

I'm wondering if it's deep cover performance art. Someone sees the 12 rules of misogyny posted and feels a real time demonstration is the only way to truly feel the benefit of the wisdom of thebewilderness.

And you honestly did well with the apology

I was having very warm thoughts...which sounds weird now ive typed it

And then you ruin it by blaming posters on completely different threads

I didn't mean for that post to sound as aggressive as it reads.

I just think that derisive WATM posts aren't really very helpful in a discussion where the situation and outcomes for both parties are indeed influenced by the wellbeing of both individual party.

If one is going to complain on a forum for parents (not solely women) about the plight of one gender then they must necessarily be prepared for the responses to consider and contrast the wider picture. Just like how a man moaning about poor pay could expect to be met with cries of "but see how much worse off women are" (WATW).

I want the best for both sexes but often can't help feel that some posters on here want to eliminate men from the discussion in order retain a monopoly on their victim status.

So it's not hard to see why I might have taken the view that posters were being unsympathetic to men

So you are assuming that people are saying what you THINK they are saying

Cos a few random posters said something mean

Gotcha

You're determined we must talk about and worry about men. And meeting men's needs.

OP, on top of rule 12, we're well into demonstrations of rule 1 of misogyny: women are responsible for what men do. And rule 3, women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

No, resources shouldn't be diverted from women's services to fund this but nor are men suffering from depression, regardless of cause, whiny. In the same way as women suffering any depression that isn't PND, whiny

And no one said this either

Why do you feel you need to purposely misinterpret posters?

Apologies, I think I did misread the 'whining men' bit. However, there does often seem to be an unhealthy attitude towards men on here which likely didn't help.

In the recent past I've read opinions that suggest that due process should be done away with in rape cases. Also that men should pay more tax - even those on low salaries who would necessarily be 'collateral damage', with no mention of the fact that young women actually earn more and that many women want to remain SAHM after the kids are at school (see current thread in AIBU) and no consideration that this may contribute to women's pay dropping after child bearing age. Also read another recently where a poster's wife was choosing not to work or do any housework whilst being really messy and letting the husband do it all - the replies were nowhere close to as scathing as they would be had it been a male 'cocklodger'.

So it's not hard to see why I might have taken the view that posters were being unsympathetic to men. Ultimately, part of what frustrates me is that women often end up being victims to the man's mental health issues alongside himself. Whenever we hear of a 'monster' who has committed a murder/suicide on his family, I speculate that he didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this and I wonder how long this was building up and what type of intervention or support might have prevented it.

So many posters are outraged at the circa 100 women who are murdered by their spouses every year, but when nearly as many men commit suicide every week

We centre women here. PND is a massive issue for women.

Whataboutery won't be appreciated as has been extensively explained. Because it looks exactly like you're trying to refocus women back to respecting and prioritising men, and when you do that on this board it takes on a very clear anti woman meaning.

Please do go start a movement to support male depression. Please do go champion male mental health. Go launch awareness raising threads. The FWR board isn't the place to do it.

Aye.

WATM is so fucking tedious.

Is it men asking for this though?

Did you read the OP? There’s a link to a dad blog, a dad who is asking for this and says he suffered PND.

It is literally what provoked this conversation and responses

Is it men asking for this though? Or is it that a need has been identified by health bosses and this is the rubbish way that they have decided to deal with that need?

Can you explain how untreated mental health problems in new fathers will help new mothers? Will the dad experiencing a downward spiral into depression, possibly leading to loss of job, income, home or breakdown of marriage help new mums?

No, resources shouldn't be diverted from women's services to fund this but nor are men suffering from depression, regardless of cause, whiny. In the same way as women suffering any depression that isn't PND, whiny

Depression, regardless of cause or who it affects, deserves to be treated seriously and appropriately, not minimised or belittled.

I'll belittle men's woes all I like, thanks, when their woes are being funded by already abjectly inadequate budgets for woman-specific conditions. You know: like PND. The thing men don't, and can't, get. Cos they don't get pregnant or give birth.

You can make as many pleas to female socialisation as you like. I still won't be giving a single, solitary, shiny shit.

I trust that is sufficiently clear.

But it's the dismissive nature of some of the posts - saying that some men are just whining because their dinner isn't ready or they can't play 5 a side football.

Depression, regardless of cause or who it affects, deserves to be treated seriously and appropriately, not minimised or belittled.

I'm assuming the OP is a HCP which makes their attitude even more alarming.

The vast vast amount of people on here have said that they appreciate that some men get depressed following the birth of their baby

Not one person has said they have no business getting depressed

Just that they are depressed...not suffering with post natal depression