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Original poster

If a girl can't consent to sex, can she consent to pregnancy? Childbirth? An abortion?

37 replies

drspouse · 28/05/2019 08:57

So, if a 12 year old can't consent to sex, but thinks she has consented (to make things a bit simpler let's assume the boy is under 16). She gets pregnant.
I understand that most children who become pregnant do not have a termination but instead have the baby and it is raised by her parents.
But if she's not able to consent to sex - because she does not understand the implications - how can she understand the effect on her child's body of a pregnancy?
But again, how can she understand and consent to a termination? Given she'd be unlikely to have competency to consent to other medical procedures?
I'm not sure where the law stands but I guess I'm really asking about actual competency rather than what's legally the case.

OP posts:
butteryellow · 28/05/2019 11:13

I don't think an abortion is necessarily any less of a big life-changing event than a pregnancy.

I definitely think it is less. I've had an abortion. My life is entirely unaffected by it - yes, I occasionally have wistful thoughts, but day to day, I know I made the right decision so I don't think about it any more than any other medical procedure I've had.

I've also had a child. I still have some after effects from the pregnancy (that will never go away), and I have a child to look after for the rest of my life (OK, so they'll become an adult, and technically I could leave them to it, but in practice I won't).

There's no two ways about it - having an abortion, sure there's a small physical risk, and mentally there's some effects potentially (although I'd contend that counselling is going to be needed for a pregnant 12 year old in any case), but compared to growing, birthing, and potentially raising a baby?

TheInebriati · 28/05/2019 11:03

Girls are not physically or emotionally mature enough to carry a pregnancy or parent a child.
It also has a major impact on their schooling, and that affects them for life. Its so much harder to get back into education once you are an adult, especially if you have a low paid job.

Tolleshunt · 28/05/2019 10:55

I don't think an abortion is necessarily any less of a big life-changing event than a pregnancy. Yes, it ends the pregnancy, and superficially life will carry on similarly to before, but the sequelae, both physical and mental, can be profound and life-long.

I guess the pregnancy is the default option as it doesn't involve actively doing anything to change the course of events. I can't see how an abortion could ever be the default, given the need for consent, involving as it does a medical procedure, though I take your point that the average 12 year old would probably not be competent to fully consent to pregnancy and childbirth and then either motherhood or adoption, either.

Either option would be absolutely seismic for a 12 year old, and there are no easy answers.

Original poster
drspouse · 28/05/2019 10:53

That's also reassuring, Stealth, I think I'm probably relying on anecdata.

OP posts:
Original poster
drspouse · 28/05/2019 10:52

If the child didn't approach a member of staff at their school for help, safeguarding procedures would be triggered the moment the pregnancy became noticeable.

I suppose that is reassuring - though of course I know some younger girls don't show much - so even if the parents are neglectful, in denial, or actively seeking to prevent a termination the school would have reason to act.

OP posts:
Michelleoftheresistance · 28/05/2019 10:47

would the GP even accept a 12 year old making their own appointment?

Multiple safeguarding channels through school for children to get needs met independently including what was the Early Help Assessment, which would involve the school nurse and safeguarding procedures up to and including social services taking the child into care if information couldn't be shared with parents without the child becoming unsafe in their home. If the child didn't approach a member of staff at their school for help, safeguarding procedures would be triggered the moment the pregnancy became noticeable.

StealthPolarBear · 28/05/2019 10:41

Most under 16 pregnancies do end in termination, about 60%. It's very very rare for a 12 year old to have a baby, thankfully.

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 28/05/2019 10:35

the GP even accept a 12 year old making their own appointment?

I don't know; but I do know that the school helped arrange a doctors appointment for a girl I went to school with when she was pregnant at 13. Eventually they gave her the decision of informing her parents or having a social worker

I'd hope that option is still available.

Original poster
drspouse · 28/05/2019 10:30

The huge life decision would be to continue the pregnancy.
I am inclined to agree.

At twelve, even in the context of what used to be Gillick Competence, decisions are made with parental involvement
This would work OK if the parents were also seriously considering the effect on the child's body and life of continuing the pregnancy, giving birth, and bringing up a child.

However, a parent who through neglect (and allowing a child to be sufficiently unsupervised to get into this position could be seen as neglect) or convictions does NOT want the child to have a termination could either just let the situation drift (not take the girl to the doctor's, tell the girl it's morally wrong to terminate, tell the girl she's got plenty of time to decide) or actively refuse to let her terminate (she asks for it, but the parent says no they are not taking her to the doctor, the child has not got enough autonomy to do this herself - would the GP even accept a 12 year old making their own appointment?)

OP posts:
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 28/05/2019 10:30

I agree with Buttery that it should be the default.

Michelleoftheresistance · 28/05/2019 10:23

At twelve, even in the context of what used to be Gillick Competence, decisions are made with parental involvement, advice and support where a child needs medical treatment they don't agree with. This is something hospitals are used to dealing with.

I would think medical professionals would regard this as a safeguarding issue if a termination was refused after all process to explain the necessity, and it would be something they would seek a court decision about. I also can't see a judge deciding that it is in the interests of a 12 year old to undergo the very serious risks of a pregnancy if asked to make the call, as the only brief at that point is objectively deciding what is in the best interests of the child.

butteryellow · 28/05/2019 10:13

A few years ago I read an argument on here regarding abortion, that it was the route that maintained the status quo. That the big decision is to continue with a pregnancy.

I think that with children, this is the way I would err - I would say that at 12, the risks of pregnancy are so huge, that the affect it would have on that child's life to be pregnant and have a baby are all but inconceivable to them, so abortion should be the default position - maintain the child's safety, leave their life as it is, and not build up an abortion as some huge life decision. The huge life decision would be to continue the pregnancy.