The feminism argument against surrogacy?

And avoiding the fact that life on the streets is so particularly dangerous for women that they may feel compelled to take the most desperate measure.

But hey it's all about 'choice' innit?

So you’re suggesting that impoverished women selling their bodies and their babies in order to avoid destitution is... a good thing?

Goodness knows we wouldn't want people to talk about that under any circumstances.

By all means start a thread on it if you find it such a compelling topic. Though preferably not on the 'Feminism' board.

MRA alert! Stand by for a mention of male suicide rates.

Goodness knows we wouldn't want people to talk about that under any circumstances.

Iced have you hit your head or did you never learn to read in context?

Seems I'm not the only one failing to see the 'context' connecting homeless men and making babies available for purchase as a valid 'choice' for women.

That woman may find alternative ways to avoid homelessness. Bloody hell, the Privilege jumps out of posters, I’m not sure if they realise it.

It’s like they’re sat their going ‘Why would you rent your womb, haven’t you received your trust fund yet?’

Do you mean that surrogacy and prostitution stops women sleeping in the streets?

To be fair many a homeless woman has been offered a bed for the night in return for a blow job (or more). Presumably @Seaseasea thinks thats fine and dandy.

The vast majority of people who sleep on the streets are men, do you think that’s a coincidence? It is not what a civilised society allows, no. But it is happening in every society around you so open your eyes!

I'm not really following your logic here. Do you mean that surrogacy and prostitution stops women sleeping in the streets?

The vast majority of people who sleep on the streets are men, do you think that’s a coincidence?

What do homeless men have to do with surrogacy?

Iced have you hit your head or did you never learn to read in context?

The vast majority of people who sleep on the streets are men, do you think that’s a coincidence?

MRA alert!

Stand by for a mention of male suicide rates.

No to discuss not to pick holes in other people’s posts.

Picking up on what you perceive to be logical flaws in someone's posts is very much a part of discussion.

But it's clear that you came here to have your choices validated, not to be take part in a discussion.

The vast majority of people who sleep on the streets are men, do you think that’s a coincidence? It is not what a civilised society allows, no. But it is happening in every society around you so open your eyes!

There’s many reasons for being destitute, bad luck, drugs, alcohol, family breakdowns, leaving care, leaving the forces etc... if a woman chooses to make money from non-conventional routes, then that is worrying and devastating but it is her choice.
We cannot help her by taking away her choice, we can help her by trying to solve the issues at the route. But ‘feminists’ seem more concerned with removing her choice to use her body how she wishes in order to improve her situation, Than they do helping her in her entirety.

As for voluntary surrogacy (As is legal in the UK - with no payment) that is none of your business, whatsoever, at any point. We cannot fight in the face of anti-abortionists that it’s none of your business what we do with our bodies and then turn around and tell a woman she shouldn’t be allowed a choice when it suits our moral compass.

No to discuss not to pick holes in other people’s posts. But whatever.

Iced I am not interested in an argument.

So you come onto a discussion thread and only engage with those people who agree with you? OK then.

@Seaseasea
I think that as long as we take the "ah well, sure they have no other choice so we should let people buy and sell their bodies" then there is no motivation to really try to change their situations. It is a cop-out.
Women's lives will never be improved by allowing these kinds of practices to develop and/or continue.
As another poster said, it is a disgrace that some women have no choices outside of selling their bodies and children (and equally disgraceful are those who are complicit in supporting and developing those industries).

Iced I am not interested in an argument. My thoughts are solely around pregnancy and surrogacy. All children are innocent and people make decisions about them all the time, you can have a different opinion from me but I don’t need to defend myself or the decisions I make.

The point I'm making is that you object to someone else 'telling you what to do with your body', but the fact is that there are lots of things which none of us are legally allowed to do with our bodies.

Do you accept the principle that 'someone else' - ie the state' - has the right to tell us not to sell our bodies, or not? Couldn't someone also say they should be allowed to sell a kidney they could easily do without because nobody has the right to tell them what to do with their bodies? And with the sale of organs, the only person potentially harmed is the adult who consented to the sale. With surrogacy, an innocent baby is part of the 'deal'.

Iced the difference is that when I got pregnant for me no-one said I couldn’t. I haven’t sold a baby or my body, I helped a loving couple become parents.

Yes their may be no ‘real choice’ for some,I agree some woman will turn to the sex/surrogacy/porn industry out of desperation and it’s terribly sad, but how are you helping her by saying she shouldn’t be allowed too?

It's not sad that some women have no choice but to sell their bodies and their children, it's a disgrace. It's not what civilised societies allow.

What happens if the women gets too old to be a surrogate, or her body too weak to sell?

the attitude that someone else decides what I do with my body seems crazy to me.

Do you also think it's crazy that someone else decides that you can't sell your kidneys or use certain drugs?

Thanks Seaseasea. I know that some women will do it for monetary gain but the attitude that someone else decides what I do with my body seems crazy to me. I don’t like the American model whereby the parents get to choose the labour plans, the diet of the woman etc, I was very much in charge of my surrogacy and I wouldn’t have entertained someone else making decisions for me. If I am good enough to carry your baby I am good enough to make the best decisions for me and the baby.

Yes their may be no ‘real choice’ for some,I agree some woman will turn to the sex/surrogacy/porn industry out of desperation and it’s terribly sad, but how are you helping her by saying she shouldn’t be allowed too?
Or do you not care how she feels, what she wants, what she needs as long as you feel morally better about not letting her use her body?

Obviously no one should ever be in the situation like that, easy to say from a privileged bubble though.

And what about the woman doing it solely because they’re done having kids or want to help someone else? Making someone parents through her own freewill.. using her body how she wishes to do so? Why do you get to decide she shouldnt?

I think people should stop trying to police woman’s body’s so much and let woman Male their own decisions.

Interesting typo there

This argument is frequently rolled out when women are making decisions in the absence of real choice or opportunity (prostitution and the porn industry being two other areas that spring to mind). Not every decision made is an acceptable one and society legislates and controls what we can do in a wide variety of areas.

@annasgirl I hope so too but I am sure they will tell me themselves as I am in daily contact with the family.
Also they have had extensive background checks, counselling and evaluations so I am pretty sure they are going to take care of their baby just like I take care of my children