make up and 6yo DD - what to do?

Oh jeese.. I can't even...

I realise that this will likely go against the beliefs of many on here (as many of the opinions on here contradict mine) but I think setting girls up to eschew any element of beauty standards is likely setting them up to become lonely cat ladies. There are many decent men out there and a visit to most dating sites will evidence a huge number of childless women in their late 30s desperately trying to find a man to procreate with. I think a balance is best personally

Would you like to "pull up a chair" whilst the irony of that is pointed out to you?
You lost my respect entirely at that point and frankly I couldn't give a shiny shit where you live.

I can't get too worked up about makeup tbh.

It's definitely marketed heavily but this is probably because it's a huge cash cow rather than for some sinister conspiracy. Beauty treatments have been around for millennia and IME are just an extension of the mating displays conducted by animals to attract partners - except of course it's now become commonplace for our society to want to 'look our best' all the time, likely more through vanity than anything else.

Most girls care more about finding the man of their dreams than rallying against societal norms, and most are more attracted to men who meet typical male beauty standards (muscles, manly features etc) hence why more women fancy Tom Hardy than Jonny Vegas. Not many woman would fancy a wildly unshaven man who didn't use deodorant and farted freely, despite these being natural attributes.

I think there always be some way in which we try and make ourselves more attractive to a mate, and it's not just in this area of our life that we go OTT. I mean, who really needs a Porsche over a Honda Jazz? Do we really need to eat exciting recipes rather than raw vegetables and cooked meat without any sauce? We could all wear grey cloth sacks too.

If we manage to totally abolish make up in our society, then the opposite sex will likely just judge people by their natural characteristics, especially those which display good breeding potential like healthy (slim) physique, symmetrical facial features (indicator of strong genes), height, etc. In many ways, those of us who aren't blessed with these natural attributes will be worse off without being able to 'scrub up' and look our best.

Chucking it in with the craft/art supplies (as opposed to keeping it in the bedroom;bathroom/dressing up box) takes an awful lot of its gendered power away...

LassOfFyvie

No I didn't take it that way at all.

You're right, my mistake. I should have said are, not were

To be clear- no slight was intended by the correction. Sorry if it read that way.

It's this repetitive, obtuse, dogged drum banging that turns people off feminism.
It should be about choice. Having choice. What OP is advocating is removing choice unless it's her choice. That's not better.
Listening, supporting, hearing other ideas, recognising that your battles are different to other people's battles. Many of us have fought battles for equality in our own ways and without behaving like a patronising harpie on a chat forum.

Pirates still are thieves and murderers, with a bit of racketeering, kidnapping and trafficking thrown in.

You're right, my mistake. I should have said are, not were.

Isn't part of being a feminist about freedom of choice? I wear make up because it makes me feel fabulous; I'm certainly not reliant on it and can leave the house without it. I don't feel like I've been brain washed either.

Drogo you don't think being a pirate might be somewhat more fun than being a princess?

Considering they were theifs and murders, I can't see how it would be more fun or aspirational, no

Pirates still are thieves and murderers, with a bit of racketeering, kidnapping and trafficking thrown in.

If not, I guess you are new to feminism. Pull up a chair, where shall we start.

😂Nice.

Are you knew to feminism OP, it seems you have just created a thread to force your opinion down peoples throat and if they don't agree then they are clearly oppressed little women, yes?

As another poster pointed out make up on women is supposed to replicate sexual arousal

Oh this old chestnut. How on earth is foundation worn to even out an uneven skin tone / conceal acne scars/ conceal red skin replicating sexual arousal. What tosh.

Feminism started long before Naomi Wolf and the Beauty Myth.
Try reading some Simone De Beauvoir; Andrea Dworkin; Germaine Greer.

My 4 year old absolutely loves the bloody stuff. We just tell her it's face paint. She just loves the colours, and mostly puts it on her dolls now.

There are some upsettingly naive people on this thread who it doesn’t seem to me have probably thought much about feminism and the beauty myth etc.
Or they have and they've come to a different conclusion about what they wish to do.
I don't wear much make up. I have huge concerns about the pressures of advertising and sexualisation of clothing from preteen upwards. I dont think what some shops sell as party wear for 11 year olds is appropriate for a child and I certainly don't think it's empowering in any way.

However, sometimes I wear a bit of make up. DH trims his facial hair so he looks neat and presentable. Some women I know are beauty product queens and that's not for me. Some men I know wear more products than me.
As feminism goes, I can't be bothered by women who wear a bit of makeup.

Please point to any sneering?

You do it continually - but seem to have zero self awareness. I hate being rude, but your self righteous attitude stinks. Don't create threads and ask for views or advice, when what you really want to do is vent, and insult people who have posted in good faith.

I guess you are new to feminism. Pull up a chair, where shall we start..
That is incredibly patronizing.

Yes, as a 41 year old woman with a very successful business whose husband is a stay at home dad. I'm entirely new to feminism.
As I said, you weren't interested in opinion, just in parroting your own. Keep your chair, thanks.

I don’t have time to write a full length reply but just wanted to say I whole heartedly agree with you OP on the insidious damage makeup, makeup culture and advertising does to women (our self esteem, distorted self image, time and cost burden etc), leaving men simultaneously untouched.

There are some upsettingly naive people on this thread who it doesn’t seem to me have probably thought much about feminism and the beauty myth etc. Or they are the lucky ones who have never felt burdened by having to be ‘pretty’ or felt not good enough next to Instagram stars/ photoshopped models/ the beautiful girl at school etc

I don’t have kids yet but dread having to deal with all this if I had girls.

I guess you are new to feminism. Pull up a chair, where shall we start..

How patronising. It is you that sounds new to feminism. There are far more pressing issues than make-up. Most of us dealt with that issue, and then made our own decisions and minds up many, many years ago.

Failing to recognise the beauty industry exploits and harms women doesn't make it not so

Since you work in marketing you must know all about that.
And so do we; but most of us think you are making this issue into something far more toxic than it should be, or is.There are far more important issues than make-up.

Your daughter is six. Does she have long hair - or do you insist on it being short? Do you forbid pretty dresses too? Or flowery clips and bows? Does she have dolls? Or do you insisting on gender neutral for everything?

What about you? Do you eschew all feminine or gendered clothing and hair styles. Do you wax your legs or your eye brows; shave your arm pits? What role model do you set for your daughter when it comes to hair, clothing and personal grooming? I think at the end of the day you as a role model is the most important one. It is the one that will shape her values most.