The Times: Scouts earn U-turn badge after scrapping trans policy

I've written a thing for Transgender Trend about the changes they've made t.co/U7J0u3kUJV?amp=1 ....when you see how bad the original policy was you can see how far they've travelled (and how much organisations that have taken advice from Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence etc need to do their own homework )

Thank you for clarifying Maya. I am glad that it is an improvement on the old guidance, however imo it still does not meet the needs of other children and it still leaves children who are identifying as transgender, outside of an appropriate safeguarding framework.

Well done though, to all of you that have managed achieve these significant changes.

I'm a scout leader, and one of those who complained to them about the old guidance.

What's on the website now is the new guidance....there are still problems with it but it has changed quite a lot from what it was .

Key things they've changed:

• removed the idea of "true gender" and normalisation of breast binding and discussion of two year olds being diagnosed
• more cautious 'accomodation' and recognition of uncertainty rather than assuming necessary social transition
• removed "complete confidentiality"..more emphasis on safeguarding
• removed presentation of parents as "supportive" only if the affirm. more discussion of working with parents
• more recognition of other children's bodily privacy as a legitimate concern. Previous guidance said 'ideally' trans identifying children should use cubicles with children of the opposite sex. New guidance pits more emphasis on individual unisex options
• removed mermaids logo and "partnership" and instruction to "refer to organisations such as Mermaids'. Still gives link to Mermaids but it's much downplayed

I think this is good news and will enable Guides to similarly review their policies (I hope).
Provided sensible and appropriate guidelines are in place and followed, the inclusion of children who are trans or gender questioning need not be a problem.

I'm one of the scout leaders who have repeatedly written the HQ about these policy's.

Until they remove advice about enabling chest binders etc I won't be letting this drop.

Scouts is a mixed sex group and their training and safeguarding is very sensible around dealing with mixed sexes overnight etc except all that goes out the window in the trans policy and it is totally at odds with safeguarding.

I've pointed this out and been politely fobbed off with - we are reviewing these policies.
I've asked them not to point leaders to mermaids and stonewall for advice.

This 'change' is lip service and not good enough.

I thought some of their guidence was pretty sensible, like trans kids sharing with their friends! That is what works best I think.

So DD1 best friend sleeps with her even though their are now different "genders"

And by gender I don't mean sex

They're not going to change any of the other stuff on the website, because they're still allowing them access to toilets of their choice etc.

Will they not have to tell parents that this is the case though?

Puresummer I am also not convinced that the Scouts are going to change anything other than those things that you have stated. It will be interesting to see what their new policy does say once it is up on their website.

Girlguiding have no intention of changing anything. They are still trying to ignore the impact that their policy will have on the inclusion of vulnerable (abused) girls who have previously benefited significantly from a single-sex girls' organisation. Girlguiding also seem to believe that they can manage the psychological harm to these girls that may well occur, despite the fact that they seem to have little understanding of their needs or situation.

i.e. so the people saying "I hope the website gets updated soon" - me too, but it'll only be updated to add "sex" to the list of protected characteristics. They're not going to change any of the trans stuff, because their policy hasn't changed aside from not calling girls girls and boys boys, and not telling parents about trans kids. They're not going to change any of the other stuff on the website, because they're still allowing them access to toilets of their choice etc.

The Scouts have changed their policy regarding telling parents/authorities about transpeople, and adding sex to their equal opportunities policy, not somehow not allowing transpeople in. I don't get what's changed, aside from sensibly informing parents of a child being trans?

This is not some "protecting male spaces" gotcha. Transmen (as in people born women) aren't being excluded from the Scouts. The Scouts are just not hiding things from their parents now. If GG followed the exact same new "policy changes", they'd still be admitting transwomen (as in people born male) into GG.

This is good news . Although I hope that website gets updated soon!

One can only hope girl guides follow suit now. Rest assured I have emails. So should they deny anyone ever pointed anything out. Or when something happens and they act all confused as they were told ", will never happen" there are plenty here who have proof otherwise.

And yy to 1984. Definitely one of us

The Scouts have been mixed sex for years now and have plenty of experience of safeguarding on over night camps and trips.

Dd was in the Beavers and Scouts and went on at least 4 camps a year. The safeguarding around sleeping arrangements was always very detailed. Dd was once the only girl on a camp and they had to enlist an older female ranger scout, as they weren’t allowed to have a single female scout sleeping alone.

I’m not surprised they have reviewed their policy and made changes. They have real life experience of safeguarding not hypothetical experience.

Wow!! Wonderful news!!

What an amazing week or so it's been!! Karen IS at the HofC, Sarah Field's outstanding speech, Meghan's speaking tour and now this!

Well done, women!! You are making HERstory!!

Girl guides is likely too deep down the rabbit hole.

Girl Guides were always going to be a priority for TRAs because they have Girl in the title.

Anything with Girl, Women, Female or Ladies in the title is a TRA magnet.

I really like 1984 person in the comments, obviously one of us

Great point, Prion - the 'backing away from batshittery' tone is most useful.

That's good news, sadly I don't think girl guides will change their policy until there's a scandal but now they won't be able to say everyone had the same policy as an excuse

Keep PUUUULLLLLLING!

Great news.

Yes, this is very good news indeed.

Andrew Gilligan, thank you!

Anyoldprion yes good points, what a depressing pattern.

Well done Scouts though and thanks to Andrew Gilligan for reporting.

That is such brilliant news! And great comments under the article too.

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/supporting-trans-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

What and where have they actually changed?

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/supporting-trans-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

Links to Mermaids, says that trans children must be allowed to use the toilets and facilities of the gender they identify with...

It's excellent news.

Although of course men and boys are going to have more power to defend their own spaces than are women and girls, this is still a massive signal to other organisations that maybe they might need to look again at what they're doing.