Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

Saying it like this, out loud, proves Barracker’s point. When we hear or read this, we feel on our guard. We think “ why does this man want me to ignore the fact that he is male ? What does this man want to do, that would be enabled by me ignoring the fact of his sex ? What does this man have to gain by blurring my natural wariness of men ? "

This was the tipping point when I decided never to tell pronoun lies again. Thank you Barracker and all. Please keep exposing and clarifying what's going on. Including with analogies.

@Barracker welcome back.

@Michaelmumsnet your non-existent ovaries of steel are to be commended

BitOfFun

We should all of us never lose our sense of humour!

Thanks rowan , chicken and barracker

As said before changing the way I see stuff and no doubt for others as well

Rowantrees, is it bad that I am still sniggering at "Bigender"?

What about the posts that were deleted because they quoted/mentioned/referred to a deleted post? Will they be restored, too?

The reason given for this thread not going into Classics was (I think) that there were 'too many deletions'.

Are there?

@MichaelMumsnet @MNHQ

What about the posts that were deleted because they quoted/mentioned/referred to a deleted post? Will they be restored, too?

Good to see Barracker back.

@michaelmumsnet I do sometimes wonder what the age-profile of the moderators is.

Lily Maynard article, 'The Wanking Man – how public masturbation is normalised'

(extract)
"From a very young age we are told to stay close to our parents, not to speak to strange men in the park, or by the toilets, not to walk down alleyways… The girls in my family were raised with the mantra, “If you’re lost, ask a lady with a baby, if you can’t find a lady ask a policeman”.

My mum remembers the other kids on the street warning each other to stay away from the priest from the church at the top of the road back in the 40s. We all had certain teachers we gave a wide berth in the 70s and 80s. We viewed the rhododendron bushes in the park with suspicion, we knew that bad men in raincoats lurked there- indeed sometimes one of our number would spring from the bushes clutching a few torn pages of a ‘men’s magazine’ and we would gawp at the tacky- sometimes literally- pictures inside.

We don’t like to say it, but all women know that men wank in public…

no, Tarquin, obviously not all men… yes, I expect there probably has been a case of a woman doing it… yes, point taken, Tarquin…

I’ll say it again. MEN WANK IN PUBLIC.

This is one of the very many good reasons that women need spaces away from bepenised persons AKA men. This is one of the very good reasons that we need to be able to name these bepenised persons AKA men. It doesn’t matter if he’s sporting fetching pink lippy, a moustache, a Man United football kit or none of the above. It doesn’t matter if he’s drawn to all things glittery and girly or he has a beer gut and drive a freight lorry for a living." (continues)

lilymaynard.com/the-wanking-man-how-public-masturbation-is-normalised/

Just thought I'd mention it given that we know there's a dedicated monitoring group watching everything that happens on this board. That sort of behaviour doesn't seem to align well with the spirit of MN either, to me.

It's just the same, really, as if an MRA group was constantly monitoring Relationships and reporting every LTB.

Talkinginthe Dark

While I appreciate the difficulties of moderating a forum like this (and this type of subject matter) I do wonder if there's maybe scope to consider the track record of the reporter as well as that of the person reported. You can easily see a situation in which a poster would accrue a list or issues attached to their user name without having really ever done anything to warrant the attention of the mods.

Maybe this happens anyway. Maybe that's why things were ultimately sorted out. Maybe I'm trying to teach Grandma to suck eggs here. Just thought I'd mention it given that we know there's a dedicated monitoring group watching everything that happens on this board. That sort of behaviour doesn't seem to align well with the spirit of MN either, to me.

Datun yes.

The patterns of narcissistic control are the same regardless of the person's sex.

R0wantrees

That post on how to abuse using proxies is astonishing.

Without naming names, we have seen that exact process in action in recent times. Right down to proxies, and accusing the target of being the problem.

TalkingintheDark

Its realy worth reading in full.

See also thread:

"To understand coercive control.
To REALLY understand it, you need to understand how manipulators work. The things they know they can do, to bring us to our knees." (continues)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1106169274761129984.html

twitter account with resources & details of events/newsletter etc:
twitter.com/CCCBuryStEd

I have no problem with names. People can choose their own name and I don’t think enforcing gender rules on naming is what anyone here wants

Pronouns are a different kettle of fish, obviously

Welcome back Barracker.

MN FWR additional rules:
(extract)
"That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them."

Great post about coercive control, R0wantrees

Barracker is back!!!!

This is excellent news.

Welcome back barracker. And I'm glad to re-read your original post.

Fantastic insight.

And I have to hand it to you, you held the line with true guts.

ChickenonaMug

Another outstanding post.

💐

Wonderful that you’re back, Barracker ❤️

And ChickenonaMug, as a fellow survivor I second everything you say. Thank you ❤️

I think Freedom Programme training for the mods is an excellent idea.

I think it can be bought in for organisations teams etc

freedomprogramme.co.uk/

I think Freedom Programme training for the mods is an excellent idea.

I know it's normally women only but maybe they could stretch a point on this occasion & include Michael.

there seems to be a bit of concern about whether our guidelines have changed. They haven't.

Oh but they really do seem to change around quite a bit Michael and the ‘not in the spirit’ reasoning given frequently is very hard to determine the exact meaning of. That will be different for everyone and it certainly seems to be different from moderator to moderator. It is actually extremely difficult to have meaningful and accurate conversations about our own lives, our bodies, our experiences with men, and to stay within MN guidelines for this specific board. AIBU is more ‘anything goes’ but feminist issues are being unfairly and stringently moderated to a point I find bordering on outright misogyny. To have special rules just for the feminist board, that can be interpreted differently from moderator to moderator... I’m not sure any of this is reasonable.