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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

652 replies

theOtherPamAyres · 25/05/2019 23:14

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

OP posts:
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13
Mbwashenzi · 26/05/2019 10:58

See how long this lasts...

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?
WrathofGRAconsultationKlop · 26/05/2019 10:55

Rickety
How the media uses language on the issue has been changing gradually over the last year
There is less he/she and more gender-avoiding language
The media were taken to task after the Lucy meadows case.
A male teacher who transitioned to female.
That level of harassment by the press never ends well.

So here we are.
Man committing a crime and the story is reported as a woman doing the crime

So it's not all gender avoiding then.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 26/05/2019 10:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mbwashenzi · 26/05/2019 10:54

I screenshotted part of Barracker's brilliant post but I guess if I put it up.here I'll just get deleted?

Justhadathought · 26/05/2019 10:53

I use the 'they' pronoun. I'm O.K with that. And rather than automatically using pronouns as a form of shorthand, I've found it easier and clearer to use the longer format which involves use of the given name - even if it can feel long winded.

For example:

"Billy Jean says they felt quite happy with the result; and they looked forward to repeat performances. Billy Jean would now like to be known as Billy Goat.

We wish them the best of luck!"

Satterthwaite · 26/05/2019 10:48

Interesting, sackrifice Grin

sackrifice · 26/05/2019 10:44

Rohypnol metaphor?

Apologies on my behalf it was an analogy, not a metaphor.

An analogy as in the changing of language lowering boundaries the same was that rohypnol lowers them. My bad. Not a metaphor.

sackrifice · 26/05/2019 10:42

I'm guessing it's something we're not allowed to speak of/refer to/think about..

People trying to take advantage don't usually point out that they have put rohypnol in your drink.

Hence the urgent TRA/MRA need to keep Barracker quiet when she pointed it out the analogy.

AnyFucker · 26/05/2019 10:41

Rohypnol metaphor ?

Are we deleting metaphors now ? I am sorry that post was censored before I could see it.

Could a kind soul pm me please ?

HearMeSnore · 26/05/2019 10:40

Damn. I missed baracker's post. Dying to know what this rohypnol business is all about.

I'm guessing it's something we're not allowed to speak of/refer to/think about...

MediocreOne · 26/05/2019 10:36

Excellent post barracker, will remember that one.

sackrifice · 26/05/2019 10:36

I think the answer to the OP is a resounding No.

Incidently, with some people we can now call them male, as they outed themselves as male so that's ok yes? After all we can't override their own self identification as male.

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?
youllhavehadyourtea · 26/05/2019 10:35

rohypnol metaphor.

This appears to be the magic phrase.

WrathofGRAconsultationKlop · 26/05/2019 10:34

Thanks Barracker
I will look into the Rohypnol analogy.

Always handy to have good analogies and words at our disposal.

Women and Girls have historically learnt to be very adept with words.

This is one of our strengths and they know it.

sackrifice · 26/05/2019 10:34

Wow.

Must remember the rohypnol metaphor.

Datun · 26/05/2019 10:30

Good grief. What's going on? Why is everyone being deleted?

We've had tons of discussions about the perception of pronoun usage. That's not against guidelines.

What's happened to Barracker. Is she suspended?

@mnhq ?

Barracker · 26/05/2019 10:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OhHolyJesus · 26/05/2019 10:00

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JackyHolyoake · 26/05/2019 09:02

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JellySlice · 26/05/2019 08:30

Interesting that so many of us avoid using any pronoun, or use the gender-neutral 'they' when referring to transwomen, yet use the masculine pronoun when referring to transmen. I wonder whether Barracker's Rohypnol analogy is at work here, unconsciously and instinctively.

RicketyClickety · 26/05/2019 08:25

How the media uses language on the issue has been changing gradually over the last year. There is less he/she and more gender-avoiding language. I think style-guides/reporting guidelines would have to be updated to see any real step change.

realdoctor · 26/05/2019 08:16

Spot on. What a powerful metaphor. Female pronouns change perceptions profoundly. I thought as much when I read a piece about Aimee Challenor and 'her' father last year.

There are measurable, meaningful differences in female and male behaviour (whether due to innate differences or socialisation). An average person will have completely different reactions to 'Woman attacks stranger in street' than to 'Man attacks stranger in street.'

GrinitchSpinach · 26/05/2019 02:47

Brava, Barracker! Extremely pertinent insight.

FleetsumNJetsum · 26/05/2019 00:45

Spot on, Barracker.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 26/05/2019 00:33

Barracker - The rohypnol metaphor is very powerful. I hadn't thought of it that way before. A compelling post. Thank you.

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