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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Karen Ingala Smith in Parliament now on single sex refuges

160 replies

Anlaf · 22/05/2019 10:32

She's excellent, as i think is Jess Philips. Karen's talking v movingly of the challenges in offering women only refuge services, the two boroughs where her organisation has had pushback already for not being inclusive enough, and in assessing male-born people for risk in accessing female services

Watch live:

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c

Lots of handwaving from one Maria Miller

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MrsJamin · 22/05/2019 12:44

Sorry I was reading the thread and didn't see the most recent cross-post.

MrsJamin · 22/05/2019 12:42

It's this Diana James - in the bio it says trans.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 22/05/2019 12:33

I think she's too loyal to the left/ the labour party to peak. But we'll see...

It only takes one spark of realisation for the rose tinted specs to fall off. How many people on this very board realised they were supporting the left due to brand loyalty rather than actually agreeing with their politics?

Anlaf · 22/05/2019 12:32

reckon so, Ewe

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EweSurname · 22/05/2019 12:30

Who recently tweeted this?

twitter.com/dianalouisej/status/1130560654887260160

Anlaf · 22/05/2019 12:29

If you want to know why Woman's Aid are lost, listen to this short segment where the head of membership starts off well and then...

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c?in=11:29:02

JM "When we set up women only services, we weren't only basing those services on biology..."

JM "I just think it is more complicated than saying these are single sex services, and we're determining that sex on the biology that someone is born with"

KIS: For good reason though!... it's males that are comitting that violence.. it's not based on some willy nilly conception of biology, it's about keeping women safe.

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EweSurname · 22/05/2019 12:27

Is it the same Diana James that's pictured half way through this article?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48249330

NellieEllie · 22/05/2019 12:20

Thank you @Anlaf for doing a who’s who for me! In the little bit I saw, Karen was good. Making specific points. Janet waffled. Sarah Campion was not direct enough for me, too much pussyfooting about instead of just addressing issues head on. Reminded me of my voluntary sector days, where people spoke for ages, but said nothing.

R0wantrees · 22/05/2019 11:56

from December 2018:

two pieces of important writing which are pertinent to this thread and exemplify the heart of the issue:

Twitter thread by Jammersminde February 2018:
"I often talk about my experiences of Domestic Abuse/Violence, of being in refuge with my child, my sense of safety and security when I try to engage with TRAs. I don’t do it to gain sympathy or to play victim olympics, but it goes directly to why I am so concerned not
only about the proposed changes to the GRA but also increasingly about all the companies and services who are choosing to ignore the sex based rights women have under the EA.

Because of this, I have been accused of using my child to “score points”, being an “abusive mum” bringing my child up to hate and fear men, being transphobic, not giving a damn about abused TW, scare mongering etc etc.

None of which is true.

In return I have repeatedly explained why women and children like us (not only us of course) need guaranteed male free spaces

I have gone into more detail about our trauma, ptsd etc both here and on FB than I really wanted, as I desperately hoped that it would make at least one person understand and see that needing our female only spaces doesn’t come from transphobia. I have made clear that I would always support trans rights but that we have to find a way for it to work for everyone, not just the minority. I have tried to stay calm in the face of pure misogyny, aggression and disregard to OUR rights to feel safe, secure and comfortable.

I have been ridiculed, called names sneered at and told my child should learn to share and get over his transphobia. This has been in response to me explaining how even a male voice would see him shaking and crying with fear when we first arrived in refuge.

Grown men have told me that my then 7 year old traumatised child should get over himself! I have been repeatedly told that a TWs NEED to work in a refuge shouldnt override the residents NEED to keywork with women only and have a women only environment.

I am being told that all the issues there already is in mixed sex services is our problem to deal with and if it means we can’t use them, well I deserve that because I’m a bigot.

I never intended to mention that we were in refuge. It’s a very painful thing to acknowledge to yourself and even harder to speak about, but I made the choice to do so hoping, as I said above, that explaining what the effect of male abuse has on women and children and how self ID and the continuous withdrawal of our sex based needs will have a huge impact. Not just for us, but for all the women and children who for whatever reason need/want to know that there are places which are for females only.

So today someone said that I was lying about it all. Thankfully I didn’t see it, but the person who said it was a TW who referenced an earlier convo where again I had tried so hard to convey my concerns and fears. Being accused of lying about this was probably my last straw. I don’t like the peak trans # as I know amazing TW so I won’t use it, but yes, today is the day where I just can’t try any more.

It took me a long time to admit my concerns about the ever increasing demands coming from the TRAs to myself, even longer to voice them quietly. I came to Twitter in November to reassure myself that it couldn’t be as bad as I imagined and as some people told me, but it’s worse, it’s horrifyingly worse.

The threats of violence, the delight found when someone was physically hurt, seeing DV action groups supporting male on female violence, the hate filled loathing of anyone who asks the slightest question, the refusal to consider women and children in all this.

The posturing, the sneering, the intimidation.

Do you know what it reminds me of? 10 years of hell. 10 years of belittling, gaslighting, humiliation, threats. I won’t give the info on the physical stuff, that’s mine.

Pure male misogyny, violence, hatred of women. And all this from people who say they feel like me...a woman"

twitter.com/JammersMinde/status/966488560374337536
Flowers

& then this recent article
'Trans women should be allowed in women’s shelters – here’s why'
by ESTHER BETTS
03 DEC 2018
www.thearticle.com/trans-women-should-be-allowed-in-womens-shelters-heres-why/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3433667-I-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-I-regret-what-I-did-this-is-why

This is coercive-control:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 22/05/2019 11:50

Diana sounds like she would be happier running a mixed sex refuge

Diana is a volunteer

The refuge Diana volunteers at is mixed sex-it admits males who identify as trans into the women’s refuge

Diana mentions during the hearing that Diana has a ‘trans history’

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/05/2019 11:50

Ive sent the link to my MP, whom I have met with about single sex spaces, and got absolutely nowhere.

This was excellent. Thank you for posting.

Massive crush on KIS. Massive.

OvaHere · 22/05/2019 11:49

There's a lot that is infuriating about the above discussion but at least they are now happening within a parliamentary setting (see also Joanna Cherry).

This is far better than a load of trans-org woke scolds dictating policy behind closed doors which is what led to the illegal dismantling of the EA and unbalanced decision making without consulting women.

It feels slow but I think progress is being made by separating out the issues (sports, VAWG, healthcare, prisons etc..) and tackling the ethics around each area.

Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:47

Karen's confirmed they've had one transwoman employee who flashed female team members,

Actually sorry R0 - it's at 10:13:30

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c?in=10:13:30

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Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:43

The women were trained to not complain any more

Yep - I imagine like Janet set out. e.g. you wouldn't worry about a Lesbian with short hair would you, etc.

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Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:41

L to R on screen:

Diana James, Volunteer, Cornwall Refuge Trust Women’s Refuge & Norda House Men’s Refuge (long hair)
Janet McDermott, Head of Membership, Women's Aid,
Karen Ingala Smith, Chief Executive, Nia (Red curly hair, EXCELLENT)

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DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 22/05/2019 11:38

Thank you for posting this OP, I would have never watched it had you not.

Great to see the conversations, Sarah C seemed to understand the nuance and Janet M was very handwavy and Karen incredibly to the point.

I hope they're starting to listen.
Although MM incredibly patronising at the end about ppl outside the room paying heed to the fact that reasonable debate is possible...

Yes we fucking know, it's the other side with the abuse and threats! Angry

NellieEllie · 22/05/2019 11:37

Have watched a bit. It’s now finished. Could someone do me a big favour and say who the 3 women sitting together were? Not in the know here. One with long hair, one with shorter gray hair, one with red hair. Thanks!

TheInebriati · 22/05/2019 11:36

That hasn't come as a complaint, and the EA2010 wasn't used in that instance, it was resolved through group work and house meetings and kind of working with the population in that service

The women were trained to not complain any more (just as they had been in the abusive relationship they were trying to leave.)
Thats not how DV support and recovery work.

R0wantrees · 22/05/2019 11:36

Linking to Regualatory capture thread.
Demonstration that this has happened in Women's Sevices evident today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3541908-Regulatory-capture

Recent thread discussing how single sex homeless services (St Mungos) also made same sex despite the reasons for them being set up the impact of male abuse and violence on vulnerable women who are homeless.
(its not just about refuge & rape services)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3553405-To-ask-you-to-write-to-St-Mungos-and-Womens-Aid-about-this

Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:34

Sorry - JM continues with the transwoman causing distress to other residents with their male presentation:

JM: That hasn't come as a complaint, and the EA2010 wasn't used in that instance, it was resolved through group work and house meetings and kindof working with the population in that service

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Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:30

Who was laughing

I assume Diana James as that's who Karen glanced in direction of - not in shot though

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Anlaf · 22/05/2019 11:28
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TheInebriati · 22/05/2019 11:28

Jess and Karen are great.
Diana sounds like she would be happier running a mixed sex refuge.

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 22/05/2019 11:28

Jess Philips is peak transing?

I think she's too loyal to the left/ the labour party to peak. But we'll see...

AutumnCrow · 22/05/2019 11:28

Who was laughing when KIS was talking?

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