Karen Ingala Smith in Parliament now on single sex refuges

“James said it wasn't uncommon for women in their refuge to fall out and said something about women arguing who has had the worst abuse.“

I’ve never come across this. I’ve met many women who have survived DV, many have lived in refuges. And every single one I met we all thought the other had suffered more and were in awe of eachothers courage.

Fantastic speech and a fantastic woman. And thank you - in the light of that dismal performance from JP, today a much needed reminder of how to centre women .

Karen, if you read this, I worked for you as a refuge worker for a while. Not directly and you might not remember me but I had enough contact with you to be sure you had what it takes to have a good hard look at yourself and challenge your attitudes.

When I first started reading about trans v women's rights (the cotton ceiling in particular, which I assumed was some kind of lunatic fringe argument but learned was very much not) I was overcome with anxiety as I'm sure lots of women on FWR have been. I thought to look at your twitter and was hugely relieved to see you also had TERF horns because I was sure you were not bigoted in the slightest. Maybe I didn't deserve to die in that grease fire after all!

Jess Phillips must know, as we do, how many women will be excluded from refuges when adults with penises are included, by virtue of their trauma, their culture, their religion. She must know that those who need refuge most are those who have the least financial, social and emotional resources. She must be able to recall teenage clients who had fled forced marriage, muslim women recently arrived in the UK as refugees, survivors of tremendous physical and emotional abuse. I think of some of my former clients and can't imagine looking them in the eye and telling them that a person with a male body is a woman. They deserve so much more than the gaslighting Jess apparently thinks they should receive. I also think of the staff who are somehow supposed to risk assess this Karen, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for standing up for them.

That's a really good speech and makes so many good points - do we know who she was speaking to?

Thank you for the link, that's a wonderful speech.

Thank you, Karen, for that, and all you have done and continue to do.

What a fantastic turn of phrase. Is that soo hard to say, Jess Phillips and the rest of you?

The text of the speech Karen gave in Scottish Parliament last week:

This not about hate. It’s not about bigotry. It is not anti-trans. It’s about women and children who have been subjected to men’s violence. Can we please just sometimes – sometime like now – put them first?

kareningalasmith.com/2020/01/20/the-importance-of-women-only-spaces-and-services-for-women-and-girls-whove-been-subjected-to-mens-violence/

What a woman!

Bump for the aftermath of todays webchat.

Speaking of that committee meeting, Angela Crawley was giving off serious "I'm on terf watch y'know" vibes and having just checked out her Twitter feed I have confirmed my gut feeling. Funny that, her disdain for Karen's input was written all over her face.

Karen was the only one on the panel to leave with her integrity intact. The other two were absolutely dismal whereas she was clear, knowledgable, well prepared and very very credible. Must be nerve wracking but she absolutely bossed it. You'd have to be pretty determined to ignore reality if you failed to register the importance of what she was saying. So impressive.

It's worth watching the video. Sarah Champion was angry with Janet from WA. She was seriously unimpressed that nearly ten years after the Equality Act had been introduced, WA had not issued guidance to its members on how to use the single sex exemptions.

Karen was a star. From memory, it was Diana who was laughing when Karen was saying it was not possible to change sex. Pathetic.

Karen was the grown up in the room. Janet was a giggling buffoon and Diana did not appear to care one jot for the concerns of women.

Diana James: There must be single-sex services; it is just we have to decide what single sex is. That is where the nub of the problem lies: what is a single sex? We are coming at it from diverse ends and we are not 100% going to reach agreement on it, because we are too far away.

Discussing this with younger feminists, who tend to be younger feminist women, they are seeing things in a completely different way from how my generation sees things. Their feminist views are completely different from the ones that I grew up with and they see it as non‑binary, those viewpoints not seeing the same barriers that we see. Personally, my feeling is we have to have single-sex refuges. We cannot have a combined male and female refuge. It is the decision about what is male and what is female that is becoming more and more of an issue, as has been discussed.

This is bonkers. I really hope those present could see that.

Reading the transcript brings home the way KIS refuses to use rtans speak.

Jess Phillips: To be clear, you're talking about a transwoman
KIS: I'm talking about a man who sexually harassed women ...etc

There is a fantastic paragraph in which she tells the Committee why she objects to the term 'gender-based violence'.

Karen was so good at clearly getting her points across. I wonder who it was that she asked "not to laugh when I'm talking" ?

🤔

Could it have been the same entitled person who threw a public strop because they couldn't access a sex toys online shop on the train that morning?

Thank you for sharing that link. Karen is marvellous. Very clear, very woman focused, very strong against being drawn into obfustication.

By contrast, Diana is interested in the best interests of people who identify as trans and is unwilling to acknowledge conflict or potential harm to anyone else as a result of that. All hail the TRA political position.

Is Maria Miller really that dim, or is she just pretending to not understand because she is so entrenched in her TWAW position?

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Diana James pops up all
Over the TRA twitter - he uses “TERF” willy nilly too.

Pun intended

It was great wasn't it? Just telling it how it is, no compromising or appeasing.

There was one very funny point where the committee were saying "We haven't heard from Karen, we have to hear from Karen". They were probably regretting being stuck having to listen to Janet and Diana and were desperate to listen to someone articulate who actually had something valuable to say.

I was disgusted at Janet talking about the women in the refuge who'd been disturbed by a trans male amongst them, musing that she didn't know what they could be upset about. Totally disgraceful.

And

d) appear to be listened to respectfully
e) appear to be taken seriously

She refused to call trans "she" or "they" calling them "he" and "him" where necessary

Yes, she used the term "trans-identified men" - I was watching and got a tremendous sense of liberation - that a woman could say all this and not
a) be violently attacked or threatened with physical violence
b) not be shouted down
c) not be in fear of her job

That room felt like liberation.

Karen was absolutely marvellous. She refused to call trans "she" or "they" calling them "he" and "him" where necessary. She was well-prepared, unlike the other two, with notes, facts and and logical and lucid arguments.

So much worth quoting, but this gets to the nub of it:

"The Gender Recognition Act has created a legal fiction and we have to be very clear that gender and sex are not the same thing.... it needs to be legally clear that a person cannot change sex. The mantra "trans women are women" is being used as a literal truth and it's not a literal truth."

Diana James was a lying bully and Janet McDermott was a ghastly sell-out. How awful that Women's Aid and Scottish Women's Aid have gone down the route of accepting MTF trans as women. The harm they'll do to survivors of domestic violence is incalculable.

Porn shaming? Since when did it stop being appropriate to shame anyone watching porn (or looking for sex toys) in a public place?

When porn-addled men escalated their habit to watching porn on public transport and no one said a thing.
They're not just mannerless, horny or watching for a laugh, it's a paraphilia that is out of control. Everyone around them is a non-consenting participant. It's no different to flashing or men who rub themselves against women on packed trains.

I've so had enough of these men and their enablers.

I was really shocked by Janet. I couldn't believe the head of WA would be as stupid as that.

Janet McDermott just seemed utterly vapid. Couldn’t make a concise point about anything and fawning over the man sat next to her.

My thoughts exactly. I’m glad Sarah grilled her on that point about not having written any guidance for members in almost 10 years. What does Woman’s Aid do? If people pay membership why do they not have proper guidance on this very important issue that affects safety and comfort of the women you are supposed to be helping? Jane makes me even more suspicious of the charity industry to be honest. This is why I’m so careful about where any spare money is donated to. You could be giving to a charity with a useless person heading it who is too intimidated to stand up for those that need her.