Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Mike Webberley suspended

333 replies

Brighterf · 18/05/2019 07:06

Seems like Dr Mike Webberley has now also been suspended and he and his wife now plan to take their services overseas. Can't see this reported elsewhere yet though.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/mike-webberley-suspended-trans-kids/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Needmoresleep · 19/05/2019 16:13

Tangentially related:

An article about how difficult it is for Bristol trans students to access NHS care using referrals from on-line clinics.

epigram.org.uk/2019/05/16/student-health-service-initially-refused-hormone-prescription-to-transgender-student/

Access to health care is raised regularly by trans lobby groups. However there is a whole lot to unpick. Many GPs are naturally unwilling to prescribe bridging hormones, or to accept referrals from private, indeed on-line providers. But this is true in other areas, where a policy seems to exist that if you start private, you have to stay private. The rapid increase in trans numbers means a shortage of specialists, and resignations won’t have helped. But this too exists in other health areas. Waits for important orthopaedic surgery can run into years.

It sounds as if suspending the Webberleys was the right move, but that it will only lead to more pressure on the NHS.

Ereshkigal · 19/05/2019 15:49

On her own case the appellant has been involved in the provision of on-line medical services in a variety of ways which include:

If you go on the Conception boards there are threads suggesting that if your doctor won't prescribe you the fertility drug Clomid you can (could then) get it easily from Oxford Online Pharmacy.

ThePurportedDoctoress · 19/05/2019 15:32

That's shocking Popchyk.
Webberley claimed that the cessation of her online service to transgender patients would be harmful, but she didn't want to know when someone she had previously prescribed hormones to needed her to confirm the prescription and treatment. Why - because the trans person was in prison and no longer a paying customer? And this doctor - and her husband - have been prescribing hormones to children. What could possibly go wrong?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 19/05/2019 15:24

Self diagnosed?

Popchyk · 19/05/2019 15:12

A few pieces from the report.

"We noted that Dr Taylor said in his statement that in the 15 years’ experience of involvement in the review of clinical concerns he had never witnessed such resistance from a doctor in the face of valid concerns, to facilitating the provision of assurance on clinical safety on such a scale as that demonstrated by Dr Webberley".

"It is notable that her main appeal statement is very short on facts but long on legal argument". Miaow. Grin

"One example of this was when she was asked about a letter of complaint dated 14 December 2015 when was sent to the Blaina surgery by a former patient who was writing from prison and seeking Dr Webberley’s home address. Her position was that she did not know about the letter of complaint because it had been sent to the surgery so she did not see it. However, the very next document was a County Court claim form. Although this has no issue date it bears the same county court reference number as that cited in the letter. The fact that the claim had a number indicates that it had been lodged. It emerged that Dr Webberley had attended a telephone case management conference with a District Judge at an early stage. We find that, irrespective of whether she did not or did not receive the complaint letter, she knew about the issues raised by the patient soon after the claim was issued in or about December 2015".

Dr Webberley’s approach to the claim for damages in her evidence to us was that this has nothing to do with her and what the patient was really complaining about was the prison doctor. Cursory reading of the claim form shows that this is inaccurate. In short, her former patient, then in prison, was claiming that she had been under the continuing care of Dr Webberley, a gender specialist who prescribed her hormone treatment. The core of the claim was that, once in custody, she needed Dr Webberley to confirm her treatment and prescription details but Dr Webberley would not talk to her, told the prison doctor that she did not know her and not to call again. The claimant’s case was also that her solicitor wrote to Dr Webberley to no avail".

So much for sterling patient care, eh? Hmm

"We find that she used every possible argument to frustrate any investigation or overview of her practice".

"In our view no conditions could realistically be imposed that would begin to address the clear inefficiency posed by her continued inclusion in the MPL because she does not, in truth, accept that she is accountable to the LHB. In this she is very plainly wrong".

"Dr Webberley’s attitude is one of entrenched resistance to regulation and is highly coloured by her lack of integrity and candour".

"We take into account also that she was seriously unwell in 2016 and has suffered from ill health since".

Popchyk · 19/05/2019 14:41

I've not seen this before.

It is a report of Helen Webberley's legal appeal to get her name back on the NHS Medical Performers List back in September 2018. The appeal was refused, but it gives a lot of insight into Webberley's activities, particularly the online medical services stuff that she ran.

phl.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/FTT%20Decision%2022%20October%202018%20-%20[2018]%203251.PHL.pdf

From the report:

She has a controlling interest in three companies registered with Companies House which were incorporated in dates in 2014 as follows:

GenderGP Limited - 10 August
My Web Doctor Limited - 13 November
Online GP Services Limited - 16 November

On her own case the appellant has been involved in the provision of on-line medical services in a variety of ways which include:

www.theonlinesurgery.co.uk
www.oxfordonlinepharmacy.co.uk
www.mywebdoctor.co.uk
www.gendergp.co.uk

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2019 14:22

I wonder which came first, given Dr Webberley seems to prescribe across the full GP range, and perhaps beyond. (Is the online pharmacy dispensing drugs that a non specialist GP would not normally expect to prescribe?)

The online prescribing, or the gender specialism.

If the former it suggests that a later interest in gender dysphoria was commercially driven, as in a potential market spotted, rather than through concern for the individuals affected.

The Webberleys are well networked with gender specialists/lobbyists both in the UK and US. I think it matters what the motivation is. These are children ffs.

youllhavehadyourtea · 19/05/2019 14:15

Still the company ran at a loss in 2018. Which is perhaps surprising.

Isnt that the way people run companies? So that they either make a loss , or just break even, and that way avoid paying tax.

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2019 14:12

Sorry its me who misread it. My mistake.

There is a directors loan going to Helen Webberely. Which was repaid during the year. Which is what you are supposed to do if you want to avoid tax issue.

www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/tax/directors-loan-account/

Still the company ran at a loss in 2018. Which is perhaps surprising.

LangCleg · 19/05/2019 14:04

Not according to the GenderGP site

Wow. One wonders why the BBC article says:

One company, Doctor Matt Ltd, had its registration suspended for six months when the regulator found medications were being prescribed after a patient's application was assessed in only 17 seconds.

The Royal Pharmaceutical Society has warned that regulators outside England need to adopt the same guidelines for inspection to make sure patients are not being put at risk.

Theoretically, companies could move to areas such as Wales with different inspection standards.

Dr Webberley, who is also the registered manager of the Doctor Matt website, said the 17-second prescription was "actually much longer than an NHS repeat prescription" would take to sign.

I think the Webberleys need to get their stories straight.

OldCrone · 19/05/2019 14:01

Old Crone, my question is what kind of lifestyle are the Webberely's leading. And do they have evidence of these earnings and where they are paying tax.

That's what I'd like to know as well. What happens to the money after their 'paying customers' in the UK have handed it over to the Webberleys? I think that's part of the same question - or at least a related one. The accounts don't tell us anything about that.

Just rereading something you said earlier, which I didn't really take in then:
money is going FROM Helen Webberely to one of their companies

Where have you seen evidence of this?

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2019 14:00

Oh FFS.

Why are we having multiple bodies on a regional basis for online services which are used by patients in BOTH England and Wales???

This is just not good enough.

So who is held responsible for negligence if there problems down the road?

Yes quite. Is it the prescriber or the consultant or the ones who own the online clinic.

Just just a chain it which it becomes no clear line of responsibility which ultimately fails the person at the end of it: the patient.

Honest, MPs who believe in good health care for all should be all over this like a rash, because it affects all areas of care not just trans medicine.

The rules, regs, bodies and authorities quite clearly are not up to the job of medicine online. And once again MPs technological illiteracy and general lack of knowledge is glaring.

It gets worse the more you scratch the subject.

There is not a cohesive safeguarding network here.

LangCleg · 19/05/2019 14:00

Red - completely agree. It's a nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen.

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2019 13:55

Interesting. I need a repeat prescription for a skin ointment and so whilst on the Clear Chemist website, looked up how much it would cost to order on line rather than bother the GP. This was the text I got. So it seems as if the Webberleys are cashing in, £25 a time, on everything ordered through the website.

“This is a prescription only medicine. To purchase this item you must have a legally valid prescription from your doctor or medical professional. If you need a prescription please choose 'I need a Prescription' from the drop down above and fill in the simple questionnaire. The Online Doctor will then review and prescribe if appropriate. Online Doctor services are provided by ‘Dr Webberley’ (Company No. 09315897). Clear Chemist do not offer treatment of disease, disorder or injury. By signing up for this service, you agree that your personal data will be sent to our third-party provider ‘Dr Webberley’ to enable them to provide medical advice remotely.

3 Easy Steps:

1 - Choose "I need a prescription" from the drop down

2 - Add item to basket

3 - Fill in questionnaire and pay.

You only pay for the product plus a £25 charge for the online doctor consultation. If no prescription is issued we will refund you the charge in FULL.”

Will the fact both are suspended make any difference. Or is this yet another loop hole.

OldCrone · 19/05/2019 13:46

The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

Not according to the GenderGP site:

What happened with Dr Matt?
I provided medical services to Dr Matt Ltd but when they had their CQC inspection recently, the CQC uncovered some areas of concern throughout the business and they have temporarily suspended the service. This service is unrelated to GenderGP.

gendergp.co.uk/queries/

CQC is for England. The Webberleys are in Wales, and Helen Webberley was prosecuted for failing to register her clinic with Health Inspectorate Wales.

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2019 13:40

The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

So tell me.

How is the average person able to find this out?
How can they check that the company they are dealing with is above board when you effectively have all these multiple names and a distinct lack of transparency.

It should be that you or me or any other member of the public can search for the operating name - not the company or individual buried in the small print.

The fact that burying in the small print is allowed is potentially harmful to patients. It gives patients a limited ability to check people who are operating.

How about a legal obligation to show a 'CQC star rating' prominently on your website home page if you are a healthcare operator.

And if this is abused its a straight prosecution with criminal sanction. And the power to remove any Co.uk Web domain.

Honestly the whole field of online medicine seems to be disaster waiting to happen because its poorly regulated and utterly opaque.

DuMondeB · 19/05/2019 13:36

Nice little circular link between the pharmacy site and the Webberley’s (see text in red).

www.clearchemist.co.uk/online-doctor/feminizing-therapy.html

DuMondeB · 19/05/2019 13:34

Redtoothbrush

GenderGP’s prescriptions seem to be fulfilled by a company called ‘ClearChemist’ (unless the patient can convince their GP to take over repeat prescribing duties after diagnosis/initial prescription is made by a Webberley).

(See comments on this reddit post: www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/76qgd9/just_wondering_how_legit_gendergp_is/ )

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2019 13:30

Old Crone, my question is what kind of lifestyle are the Webberely's leading. And do they have evidence of these earnings and where they are paying tax.

And would the Spanish Authorities be interested in their sources of income.

I refer you to the case of the International Football Players and the Spanish Tax Man

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40287173
Why are Spanish football stars in legal trouble?

Spain has attracted arguably the three brightest lights of world football, with Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid and Barcelona's Lionel Messi and Neymar all plying their skills in La Liga.

Over the past year, football fans have become used to seeing the trio caught up in accusations of tax fraud and other financial crimes by the Spanish courts.

And they are not the only players in the crosshairs of the Spanish judiciary. In 2016, Lionel Messi's Argentina and Barcelona team-mate, Javier Mascherano, received a one-year suspended prison sentence for tax fraud.

Lionel Messi and father Jorge were last year convicted of defrauding the Spanish state of €4.1m (£3.6m; $4.6m) in unpaid taxes on the striker's image rights, controlled by offshore companies in Belize and Uruguay.

Now it seems they are targeting very high incomes and this case might not be relevant to the Webberely in various ways...

... But its interesting.

Also relevant here is the The EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (Directive 2016/1164/EU) which was introduced this year.
ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

This was a directive requiring EU members to put in place measures to combat aggressive corporate tax avoidance.

Now I don't fully understand this, and it's scope (and loopholes) and how much is now up and running, but its interesting...

I like interesting things.

Mr Banks and Mr Farage are not fans of this. Mr Farage doesn't turn up in Brussels to do work very often. But he always turns up to oppose laws like this one.

DuMondeB · 19/05/2019 13:27

Malaga is an interesting choice for a second home - plenty of Brits have relocated there purely for the sun, sea and relaxed lifestyle of course, but the Costa Del Sol is still struggling with the after effects of it’s 70s/80s reputation as the ‘Costa Del Crime’ (and politicians have warned of a post Brexit return to the pre 2004 situation).

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15918688.brexit-could-usher-in-new-costa-del-crime-era/
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/10/brexit-could-bring-back-bad-old-days-of-costa-del-warns-mep

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/james-mulvey-drugs-solihull-14790435

(All linked articles from 2018)

I would imagine that a Malaga based accountant with a certain type of client base would be rather interested in the financial structures of Belize.

Not making allegations against the Webberley’s specifically here, just thinking out loud about cultural context...

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2019 13:24

So who is held responsible for negligence if there problems down the road? Given young children have been receiving new treatments with unclear long term outcomes.

And where is the resource/expertise in the NHS to care for, especially, FtMs who appear to need long term monitoring of hormone levels and kidney function.

LangCleg · 19/05/2019 13:15

Are any of the webberleys companies registered with the CQC?

See my post just above, Red. The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2019 13:14

A few questions:

Are any of the webberleys companies registered with the CQC? I looked and couldn't find any.

I thought that all healthcare provided - regardless of whether they were public or private - were supposed to be.

Do we have a loop hole here where the CQC do not regulate online medical services?

The NHS website has a Web page entitled
www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/pharmacies/dangers-of-buying-medicines-online/
Dangers of buying medicines online

This mentions:
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has a register of authorised online sellers of medicines, which you can use to check if a website is legally allowed to sell medicines to the public.

Now this particular database seems to include companies which have had registration removed - its not just companies who are approved.

Yet a can't find a trace of the Webberleys or gendergp.co.uk (noting the UK domain name here, which legally is based in the UK not abroad)

Which I find surprising, if they are dishing out hormones.

Given that online medical services are the model of care being proposed that we should move a lot more to (despite academic research that online based services are not necessarily good for patients, particularly vulnerable patients) isn't this rather a large oversight, and one that parliament should be thinking of addressing.

It strikes me, the Webberelys seem to be navigating a whole pile of cracks in the system here.

Who is looking into this?

Who is considering patient safety in an online context on a political level?

Anyone?

Interesting.

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2019 13:11

Old Crone, it would be interesting to see who patient contracts are with. I used to get contact lens from a high street optician but mailed from the Channel Islands, and Amazon put much of their business through low tax Luxembourg (was the deal negotiated when Junkers was PM!)

But this opens up a further question of liability.

If one of today’s teens finds, in a decades time, that they are crippled with osteoporosis and needing a liver transplant, who is negligent? An elderly couple living in Spain, a company in Belize, medical insurers who might try to wiggle around their responsibilities given the warnings the pair have had and the way Mr took over from Mrs when Mrs was suspended.

Genuine question. It’s an area I know nothing about.

OldCrone · 19/05/2019 13:02

Just to clarify, money is going FROM Helen Webberely to one of their companies (not TO Webberely) and Mike Webberely has a business in Belize.

So what happens to the money from when it is paid to the Webberleys until it gets channelled to the Belize company? Because it doesn't seem to be going through any of their UK businesses. Is it going straight to Belize with no tax paid? Or what?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread