No one talking about the fact that Alabama have outlawed abortion?

I do feel defensive. I can’t logically see any difference when all people of a certain group are attributed something (even men / women who make up 50% of the population and aren’t minorities). I’ve never understood the derision around NAMALT.

I bet if someone said black people in the UK represent 10% of the population and are responsible for 60% of all knife crime (I made these stats up but know it’s heavily disproportionate) there’d be loads of people saying it’s only a minority of people and not all black men are like that you racist fuck.

I don’t want to get into arguments about abortion rights. I probably have the same thoughts as most on here but like I said I’m happy to leave it to women when as a man I’ll never be in the position of being pregnant.

I am an advocate of saying ladies it’s over to you. Just don’t blame me personally. Some men yes. Blame them if you want (alongside women with the same views). But I have not problem with NAMALT like I’d have no problem about saying not all Muslims are fanatics, not all Jews are tight fisted, not all Scotsmen are alcoholics etc

It’s when these laws etc are attributed to ‘sexist men’ this obviously then draws me into somewhere I don’t want to be because this implicated me (as a man) for being responsible for this even though I don’t harbour such opinions.

Forgive me if I hear echoes of the complaints about the Gillette ad in your paragraph here. If you're not a sexist man then the women talking about sexist men are not referring to you so you have no reason to feel defensive.

I agree that there will be quite large self serving element to pro abortion men. I’m not pretending to be superior. I just felt some stats would be useful.

I do have an opinion (and feel entitled to have one like any person) but I usually keep them to myself because I acknowledge that women’s opinions should be at the forefront and take precedence.

It’s when these laws etc are attributed to ‘sexist men’ this obviously then draws me into somewhere I don’t want to be because this implicated me (as a man) for being responsible for this even though I don’t harbour such opinions.

I’m happy to leave it to women to decide this subject. The research I mentioned was just countering if it wasn’t for men this wouldn’t happen and it seems the opposite

Nowforni.uk
We must try and resolve the one situation that we do at least have some control over.

Frankly, given that there is as much chance for men to vote for abortion access from motives which are actually quite self-serving, I'm very much of the opinion that the men who support women should do so in a broader way than just supporting abortion access, because I've often had conversations with men who couldn't give a shit about improving the societal aspects that often mean women feel abortion is the only choice available, but they think that because they support abortion access they have a right to be lionized as 'pro-woman'.

I have no real interest in centering male voices in a discussion about an issue that is centred on the bodies of women, whatever those men argue for.

Sorry got my wires crossed and the article was actually about the UK but see quite below

So around 24 to 35% of men want to put more restrictions on abortion, against 43 to 59% of women – a consistent gap of around 20 percentage points. That raises some pretty big implications, the most obvious being that if it were left to women to vote on the issue, with men out of the picture, there’s a good chance that the result would be in favour of restricting abortion. On the flip side, if only men voted, they’d almost certainly vote in favour of women’s reproductive rights.

If women want to demand men take a step back and leave it to them I will do so but don’t think the debate people have about abortion is a men controlling women thing

As a man I disagree with this legislation. The only thing I’d say to go against the grain here is that there seems to be huge focus on this old white men thing as if it affects things. Some women can argue that men shouldn’t be making these decisions which is fair enough. However the research I read (and there was an article in the Guardian about this) is that in the Southern states mentioned women are far more likely to be pro life than the men so that if the decisions were left to women only the consequences would be even more draconian. It’s from 2014 but doubt things have changed that much www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Good pointsunset and it's not just Evangelical Protestantism. I remember in the run-up to the 2016 election a rather surprised TV interviewer discovering that the two Hispanic women he was talking to intended to vote Trump simply because they were Catholic and anti abortion.

In this case I wonder whether the fact that the people who voted this through were mostly men is a bit of a red herring.
I read a Guardian article yesterday that included some statistics on abortion by country. It stated that around 70% of Trump supporters (men and women) are in favour of an abortion ban.
To me, this is a symptom of another problem in America that goes far beyond the misogynistic men in power.

Corey Booker nails his colours to the mast.

^Cory Booker: An Open Letter to Men on Abortion
The presidential hopeful urges men to support women’s fundamental freedoms^.

Extract

Women of color, low-income women, and women living in rural areas in states that have restricted and sought to criminalize abortion will be disproportionately affected. They may be unable to afford to travel to a different state—which could also mean missing work and arranging for childcare even while enduring lengthy 72-hour waiting periods—in order to get the health care they need. They can’t afford to pack up and leave—and we won’t let them weather this storm alone,

The restriction and attempted criminalization of abortion doesn’t just violate a woman’s rights while she is pregnant, they strip her of the right to plan for her and her family’s future

www.gq.com/story/cory-booker-open-letter-to-men-on-abortion

Janice Turner is talking about it today in the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-clock-is-turning-back-on-women-s-rights-x9n9mvqrw?shareToken=9e34c18b9527f55a5497edad4e27b884

Thanks Otepoti for those interesting articles. It is clear the Alabama ruling is meant to be challenged. They want this to go to the Supreme Court. Whatever one's views on abortion it is also clear once a woman or girl becomes pregnant she vanishes, her needs, her wishes, her situation is secondary to the fact she is pregnant. There are plenty of women who support reversing Roe v Wade, they and the men who vote for abortion laws that restrict access even when Rape and Incest is involved are lacking in all human empathy and compassion. Incest is rape, whether it is by a brother, father, grandfather or uncle. If Roe v Wade is overturned in the Supreme Court women will come out in the hundreds of millions.

Three interesting articles from the U.S. online journal Vox on what is happening with the proposed abortion laws.

Elizabeth Warren just announced her abortion platform. It’s aggressive. It has little chance in Congress. But Warren is one of the few Democratic candidates with a clear reproductive rights plan.

www.vox.com/2019/5/17/18628684/abortion-elizabeth-warren-platform-roe-v-wade

Abortion in America, explained in 10 facts
As anti-abortion laws sweep the country, a lot of people have questions. Here are some answers. By Anna North

www.vox.com/2019/5/16/18628002/abortion-ohio-alabama-georgia-law-bill-details

Alabama’s near-total abortion ban is the ultimate elevation of the “unborn” over women. The lack of a rape or incest exemption is the culmination of a narrative that values the “sanctity of the unborn” over pregnant people.

This article gives a good informative historical overview of abortion laws in the U.S.

www.vox.com/first-person/2019/5/17/18629332/alabama-missouri-abortion-ban-2019-rape-incest-exemption

I don't understand it. Surely they wouldn't want poor black women having fatherless babies . (Their attitude not mine)

That said, I do have sympathy with their view that a life is a life, the most fundamental right. It's not illogical. It's not practical or humane, but not illogical.

Because white men are the predominant factor in the patriarchy.

No men are the predominant factor in the patriarchy - the clue is in the word 'patriarchy'.

quiet is there not the additional fear that they will be arrested after taking an unexpected journey out of state and be asked to explain themselves?

And yet you have posted on nothing about it.

Thats par for the course really. People moan that we aren't discussing the right stuff, while not discussing the stuff they reckon we should be discussing (even though we are discussing it..)

It’s an absolute disgrace. Can any women affected by this cross state lines to get the help they need?

Do you know what, yes, maybe if the overwhelming number of male legislators in the US were black or asian they would have voted the same way to punish women. There's no reason to suppose otherwise given the state of the world where black and asian men are legislators.

But these are white men, and that's significant in a country that is still hugely hampered by racism, and the intersection of racism and misogyny creates a perfect storm of misery for the women who bear the brunt of this bullshit and who should be the focus of all campaigning on the issue.

UndoingItAgain
"What's the fact that they're white got to do with it? You think black and asian republican men wouldn't have done this?"

Perhaps the fact that it disproportionately affects black women . They are around 13% of the female population but account for 49% of all abortions.

I've actually been talking about with all my pro life friends on Facebook, and I've posted on here about it, and I even had a chat about it in the work canteen.

Hope that engagement passes muster.

It's not just Alabama. I'm not even sure why that one's grabbing all the headlines since there are quite a few states that have jumped on that bandwagon. But they've been chipping away at abortion rights for several years in the USA (where I lived for 27 yrs until recently).
In some states where abortion is legal, there are no abortion clinics for 100s of miles, primarily because it's too dangerous for doctors and staff to work there.
But then again, we have Northern Ireland......

@NoneButOurselves

Ok, there have been threads. But I'm another one who feels the level of discussion/outrage/buzz is disproportionate to what's happened.

And yet you have posted on nothing about it.

If you are outraged then be outraged, don't have a pop at other people for not demonstrating their outrage when you haven't done it yourself.

I am so seething about this that I'd get banned if I wrote what I thought. I can only do so much from here in the UK.

Loads about it if you follow any Americans on Twitter.
Here's a polite one twitter.com/brideofraindog/status/1128934939632603136

Found it, and it doesn't seem to be pay-walled!
www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/opinion/alabama-abortion-georgia-roe.html