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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Naked Yoga and Cuddle Parties: Lap Dancing Clubs for the Woke

67 replies

AlwaysComingHome · 16/05/2019 23:15

Interesting article on Quillette that confirms most of what we think about Woke Bros:

As a journalist writing about weird workshops and unusual classes I’ve covered cuddle parties, rope-binding, naked yoga, and tantra, to name but a few. These classes are popular with the hipsters who are colonising Hackney Wick and other areas of East London in the throes of gentrification. And with each event I cover, I become more suspicious that these “alternative” workshops are simply a way for apparently progressive men to gawp at women—lap dancing clubs for the woke...

quillette.com/2019/05/15/naked-yoga-and-cuddle-parties-lap-dancing-clubs-for-the-woke/

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ChateauMyself · 02/03/2020 21:19

The mindalia woman was interesting...

A nice mix of religious ideas - spirt/ether babies (can find these ideas within Catholicism and Mormonism)

& guilt tripping woman for owning their reproductive rights (abortion / map)

Who are mindalia Hood? New Age drivel or roots in Catholicism?

hoodathunkit · 08/06/2019 13:39

The narratives re victim blaming and cults are nuanced and complex and I would like to explore them in more detail, however I just quickly wanted to share a video that resonate with the issue of women being persuaded that our reproductive organs are polluted and haunted by phantoms of past actions.

I have mentioned this narrative here before in relation to claims to be able to heal women of trauma linked to rape and child sexual abuse via intimate massage.

The video below has English subtitles and the speaker claims that abortions leave phantom babies behind in the womb that harm the woman and any children born from subsequent pregnancies.

This concept is cruel and completely insane. Obviously

I found the video after going down several rabbit holes linking the misogynist life coaches Nicki and Tony Vee to an organisation called Inspire'd to some extremely shady women's empowerment organisations linked to the Unification Church aka the Moonies and to other controversial religious movements.

Will post more later when I have a moment

TeiTetua · 26/05/2019 17:59

I really don't think men have a recognised way of "dressing sexily" in our society. Whatever a man tries to do in that direction is more likely to be taken as threatening, or just plain ridiculous.

Lumene · 25/05/2019 16:45

That attitude which sees women as sexual objects rather than persons is part of why sexual assault happens, is allowed to happen, and is not seen as important when it does happen.

So are men dressing sexily encouraging women to sexually assault them too by your theory?

DrG · 24/05/2019 18:28

By "soft in the head" do you mean "groomed" or "brainwashed" or some other thing?

I meant a bit stupid and or gullible. Adult women with vulnerabilities can of course be groomed to attend such ‘classes’ but I suspect a portion are just a bit stupid and somehow think that anything which is pushing boundaries is liberating/edgy/cool.

I suspect many of us have been there in some way or another, most of us get to wise up relatively unscathed, thankfully.

hoodathunkit · 24/05/2019 16:13

Apologies for a flying post, running late

his type of stuff immediately makes me think of cults. Every documentary I've watched about a cult has featured elements of mixed sex group nakedness as an exercise in 'empowerment'.

Actually, when it comes to retreats (where people are at extreme risk of brainwashing) the typical retreat divides couples into single sex groups

The women are trained in how to awaken your inner goddess / feminine essence via erotic dance, sexual skills, massage, and surrendering to men

The men are trained to awaken their inner warrior / sexual rockstar whatever

After a period of training in accepting gender stereotypes as natural and empowering men and women meet for a collective shagfest (amy happen in separate rooms)

routinely promoted are

non-monogamy (if your partner wants a monogamous relationship you will be encouraged to lie to him / her about your sexual life)

not getting involved emotionally / romantically with your partner during sex as this impedes your connecting with the divine during the sexual act

no more time / more later

OvaHere · 24/05/2019 14:06

This type of stuff immediately makes me think of cults. Every documentary I've watched about a cult has featured elements of mixed sex group nakedness as an exercise in 'empowerment'. They always turn out to be abusive and part of wider mind control tactics.

A recent Louis Theroux documentary on Polyamory in Portland featured one of these parties. The whole thing was incredibly awkward and Louis looked so uncomfortable.

hoodathunkit · 24/05/2019 13:58

A lot of younnger women mistake being lusted after for being liked.

Absolutely

Also we live in a selfie obsessed era where how many followers you have on social media is perceived as indicative of your worth.

Just wanted to add a fascinating link about the history of yoga, I will be posting much more about yoga later, pushed for time right now

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DSjygU59Xu4J:jfdeters.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/the-myth-of-yoga/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DSjygU59Xu4J:jfdeters.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/the-myth-of-yoga/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

RuffleCrow · 24/05/2019 13:53

A lot of younnger women mistake being lusted after for being liked. They want the latter but they'll settle for the former. Or at least i did pre kids. No naked yoga back then thankfully

hoodathunkit · 24/05/2019 13:38

I have the day off and I am now going down the rabbit hole you have provided.

Please be extremely careful

I have said that these networks are dangerous many times but people very often don't listen

Just to make it very clear, I would strongly suggest that women do not go to these kinds of events for research purposes. Signing up for newsletters and downloading files is not recommended

Thank you so much for the kind words, I often feel that my kind of feminism is very different to that of many of the women posting here

I hope that we can all educate ourselves about the dangers to women that these groups pose

hoodathunkit · 24/05/2019 13:33

It’s hardly victim blaming to come to the conclusion that you must be a bit soft in the head not to stop and ponder why you’re one of a handful of women in a room full of leery men at the naked yoga session...

By "soft in the head" do you mean "groomed" or "brainwashed" or some other thing?

Goosefoot · 22/05/2019 22:25

Any proposition about how power moves in society that suggests women wearing sexy clothes leads to sexual assaults just makes me think of the narratives so often unpicked on the DV threads here.

Not unpicked successfully, IMO.

You can't separate sexual assault, overall, from cultural sexualisation of women. Clothing is one way women's sexualised position in our consciousness is introduced, maintained, and reinforced. In the minds of women and girls and boys and men. That attitude which sees women as sexual objects rather than persons is part of why sexual assault happens, is allowed to happen, and is not seen as important when it does happen.

Now, yes, that is a generalisation, any specific incident will have its own set of particular circumstances. But people's minds don't put these things in discrete boxes.

Lumene · 22/05/2019 21:38

If you say, women wearing sexy club clothes are being influenced by a set of stereotypes or an industry that sexualises women for its own gain, and that when we buy into it we are part of a culture of sexualisation within which sexual assaults happen, it's not victim blaming, it's making a proposition about how influence and power moves in society.

Any proposition about how power moves in society that suggests women wearing sexy clothes leads to sexual assaults just makes me think of the narratives so often unpicked on the DV threads here.

I agree with your other point about the overuse of victim blaming though.

DrG · 21/05/2019 21:58

It’s hardly victim blaming to come to the conclusion that you must be a bit soft in the head not to stop and ponder why you’re one of a handful of women in a room full of leery men at the naked yoga session...

Goosefoot · 21/05/2019 20:15

What is the difference between many of the comments on this thread and victim blaming?

I don't know. I do't like it when the term victim blaming is used too broadly.
If you say someone was responsible for her assault because she wore sexy club clothes, that's victim blaming. People are responsible for what they do, though that can be mitigated in various ways.

If you say, women wearing sexy club clothes are being influenced by a set of stereotypes or an industry that sexualises women for its own gain, and that when we buy into it we are part of a culture of sexualisation within which sexual assaults happen, it's not victim blaming, it's making a proposition about how influence and power moves in society.

There is a point where those two things come together in an individual though. Maybe the teen who buys into that really doesn't get it, is simply being influenced by the culture at large, is a victim of its view of women. But is that true of, say, Madonna? Is she a victim, or has she chosen to support that because she benefits from it?

Well, who knows, I don't know Madonna, and maybe not everyone likes my particular example. But women are generally speaking also people who have some level of responsibility for their actions, they do have some real agency.

I think a lot of these women are likely horribly naive, and probably some of the men as well. But it is also the kind of thing where adults are capable of employing agency, there really is not huge social pressure to go to naked yoga.

GraceMarks · 21/05/2019 19:39

Oh look, it's in the Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/17/my-life-in-sex-the-man-who-goes-to-cuddle-parties

What irritates me about this is that, although the "author" claims these cuddle parties aren't sexual, it's in the My Life in Sex series and he actually hooked up with his "current primary partner" at one, so hmmm, chinny reckon. I'd bet my house that he's into nude yoga as well.

StopThePlanet · 21/05/2019 17:01

hoodathunkit

Thank you so much for all the time you took to write your posts and include links as starting points for research.

I have the day off and I am now going down the rabbit hole you have provided.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 21/05/2019 11:19

The narratives is basically as follows: Your vulva, vagina and uterus are dirty, polluted, blocked, contaminated with invisible psychic hooks, worms or parasites.

That's grotesque. I have the greatest respect for my amazing female reproductive organs. From being self cleaning to the miraculous tasks of pregnancy and birth, I'm very proud of my body.

Teaching women that they're dirty is outright evil. As for the surrendered wife stuff... I find it hard to believe these ideas get traction, though there must be enough misogynist women who fall for it. Look at all the women in Alabama who voted for the terrible abortion law

hoodathunkit · 21/05/2019 09:49

Just a little clarification

When I suggest that feminists need to study psychology I am not suggesting that they undertake a professional course in psychology. I am suggesting that feminists familiarise themselves with the uses and abuses of psychology and different models of psychotherapy within, for example, advertising, the pick up artist movement, the generation of false memories, social engineering, the arts, religious and psychotherapy cults, politics etc.

I am not suggesting that feminists do this in order to participate in the collective manipulation of the masses, but to empower ourselves with an understanding of what we are up against so as to enhance strategic thinking and capabilities when challenging pseudoscience and dangerous social engineering and threats to freedoms and democracy.

One of the most important subjects, especially in relation to the appropriation of feminism by cults, is the study of the Human Potential movement.

The HP movement is a fascinating example of a new age hippy movement encompassing syncretic spiritual movements, yoga, meditation, vegan / raw food diets, various hippy / new age schools of psychotherapy, community / revolutionary / therapeutic theatre groups, LGATS, sex cults, the use of psychedelic drugs and other areas of interest.

The HP movement has influenced many models of psychotherapy currently in use in the UK and internationally and has contributed significantly to the development of various “women’s empowerment” and “women’s leadership” movements that demonstrate beliefs regarding sex and gender that are like a hybrid of the “surrendered wife” movement and the film “The Stepford Wives”.

Some of links of interest, please be advised that they contain material any reasonable person will find distressing

Firstly an example of a Russian cult with evident HP movement origins, that displays many features of other similar cults and, sadly, there are plenty of them.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4909556/Sex-cult-guru-faces-extradition-Russia.html

Another example here - also makes for very distressing reading
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2785423/Sect-leader-raped-thousands-female-followers-claiming-heal-sex-sparks-international-arrest-warrant.html

Finally, and this is truly fascinating, a very recent and very disturbing small cult that caused significant harm to vulnerable young people (be warned it makes for extremely disturbing reading) and that demonstrates many elements that can be found in much larger, successful, highly abusive cults, although these elements may not be evident without a lot of digging.

www.thecut.com/2019/04/larry-ray-sarah-lawrence-students.html#comments

There are a number of themes that permeate all of these kinds of movements in my experience

They include:

A strong emphasis on sex and gender in teachings / doctrines. Women are told that feminism and modern life are toxic and are influencing women to become masculine. In order to discover / awaken the woman within / feminine essence / inner goddess / wild woman / authentic self / whatever women need to detoxify their bodies of various forms of pollution.

In this respect the central narrative is not unlike that used to market jamu sticks, vagina bleaching creams, lysol douches, secret ceres, yoni pearls etc. The narratives is basically as follows: Your vulva, vagina and uterus are dirty, polluted, blocked, contaminated with invisible psychic hooks, worms or parasites. These oppressive forces are the residual remnants of child sexual abuse (including abuse that you cannot remember but is locked in the body at cellular level), oppressive sexual messages from society and bad sex with incompetent partners.

Various types of yoga and medication focussed on the womb / yoni / female reproductive organs must be undertaken in order to “clear blockages”. These therapeutic treatments may also include genital / anal massage or even, as in the case with Dobes Jaroslav aka Guru Jara and various other “tantric” rapists, pimps and abusers, by surrendering to sexual violations by the guru / cult leader.

These abusive movements promote the concept of feminine empowerment via surrender to a male guru.

A fascinating and extremely disturbing example of this kind of cult is NXIVM, which is currently all over the news and makes for horrible reading.

The control of followers diets is standard within these movements.

If the guru prefers very slim women then the female followers are placed on starvation rations. If the guru’s preferences are for fuller figured women then the followers are fattened up like livestock. The adverse health effects of extreme diets on the health of the women is considered irrelevant. The guru’s happiness and satisfaction is all that matters.

Women are typically isolated from their friends and families, treated by various quack methods to “clear blockages” and “sever links to toxic relationships”. Once “awakened” the women frequently make false accusation of incest against their parents and, once completely alienated from their friends and families, are put to work to recruit more women and girls, are often used as spies, human assets, blackmailers, sex workers etc.

A very clear example of this can be found here:
(scroll down for the piece titled ""Govt services" and two parents agony")

www.afma.asn.au/afmanov991.html

There are other common features of these movements which I can write more about, but I would hope that readers here will make some discoveries for themselves.

One of the most concerning features, as evidence in this thread, is the victim blaming of victims.

It is easy to understand how this happens when people expressing opinions do not understand the human unconscious and do not understand the nature and mechanisms underlying coercive control.

So much more to write but this will do for now.

hoodathunkit · 19/05/2019 10:13

1980s even what is wrong with me this morning? sorry tired, multitasking and late for an event

hoodathunkit · 19/05/2019 10:12

oops

1908s should read 1080s

hoodathunkit · 19/05/2019 10:11

What is the difference between many of the comments on this thread and victim blaming?

They absolutely are victim blaming, however, while it would be a lovely world if feminists lead the way in understanding cultic manipulation, feminists are just people like anyone else and generally victim blaming is endemic when it comes to cults. Most people do not have the first clue about emotional manipulation so it is unsurprising that there is victim blaming here.

Also, as is evident on this forum, there is significant resistance from some feminists to educate themselves about different models of psychology. “Just Freudian nonsense” etc. This is a shame because all of these abusive cults have done thing thing in common - they study psychology to the point where they are well versed in the art of manipulating vulnerable people and the masses, via psychological manipulation.

Thus feminists, in my opinion, should make it a priority to study psychology and the various methods and schools of psychotherapy, so as to understand the nature of the threat.

This is a delicate issue however because so many schools of psychotherapy, an overwhelming number in fact, have been infiltrated by cults.

Also, as I have tried to make clear, feminist groups and women's empowerment groups have been targeted by cult recruiters since at the very least the 1908s and probably well before then.

Many are "sex positive" feminist groups but not all. Feminism in all its facets is undergoing a process of astroturfing and appropriation.

Sometimes, as with the transgender agenda, the infiltration / astroturfing is overt, explicit and easy to see (although interestingly talking about it is risky as many threads here testify).

However this is a war on multiple fronts. I have mentioned a disgusting abusive cult called the Deer Tribe here before on another thread. This cult has successfully targeted both "sex positive" feminists and radical feminists. Some radical feminist posters here will know feminist friends involved in this cult.

If I know of a sexual predator who is using the front of Christianity to abuse vulnerable people (e.g. Craig Stasio) I will try to get decent, reasonable Christians involved in exposing him or her.

One of the reasons I am posting here on this forum is to try to alert feminists to the harm being done to vulnerable women not just by cults appropriating women's empowerment but by the victim blaming narratives that so often accompany them.

For what it's worth I have no problem at all with "sex positive" feminism, the philosophy underlying it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I don't even have a problem with naked yoga in theory. If it was small group of close friends on a very hot day in a private, secure natural environment it might be an enjoyable experience, especially if skinny dipping was an option afterwards.

However I know that naked yoga classes and meetups are bad news because of their many network connections to abusive cults.

In fact, forget the naked aspect, there is a very, very serious problem with yoga generally and abusive cults. Feminists need to know about this urgently and I will be posting more about yoga cults here later.

I am also depressed about how something so potentially empowering as "sex positive" feminism has been appropriated and perverted by pimps, pornographers and traffickers.

I sometimes wonder whether I am wasting my time here. Some posters seem to object to checking out any sources that are not created by women / feminists. If I restricted myself to posting only about the writings / videos of feminists I would not be able to communicate what need to be communicated in order to alert women to the dangerous state of the world today, especially for women and for feminists.

I am not the kind of feminist who only reads feminist books and only watches feminist films. If some feminists want to do that then crack on but you will be of limited use in this war and all kinds of threats and abuses against vulnerable women will pass you by unnoticed.

My main aspiration is to prevent and stop the abuse of children and vulnerable adults. I will read all any any material that will help me in my quest including material written by any man or women who can offer helpful insights and any sexual predator who is sufficiently foolish to make his or her proclivities available to read via an open source or a printed book.

Lumene · 19/05/2019 08:06

What is the difference between many of the comments on this thread and victim blaming?

hoodathunkit · 18/05/2019 21:09

The archived link to the Raelism sex worker website works but the linked pages do not load

This, older, archived page works better as the links work

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20070307180754/www.raelsgirls.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20070307180754/www.raelsgirls.com/

This often happens with the archive

It is always worth checking older archived home pages if links don't work

That's it from me for now

More to follow

hoodathunkit · 18/05/2019 20:55

while I'm here

The Raelian movement is definitely of interests to feminists

It has it all, claims of female empowerment, allegations sexual abuse (including of minor females) UFOs, claims of human cloning, a subsidiary organisation consisting of female sex workers, a (IMO scammy) organisation calming to perform reconstructive surgery on women who have suffered FGM, and last but not least the Realism movement founded "go topless day" and "free the nipple" in which female Raelians walk around topless as, er, some kind of women's liberation activism. Or something.

Here's a link to the Raelian sex worker website (archived for safety)

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190402204752/www.raelsgirls.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190402204752/www.raelsgirls.com/

The Free the Nipple and Go Topless Day videos are all over youtube

Lots more material available online.