Ruth Hunt: it's not transphobic to oppose self-i.d ; prison, sport, refuge are 'grey areas'.

I know the meeting you mean DpWm but don’t have Rowantrees’ retrieval skills! My hunch is that this is more Ruth Hunt realising the consequences of the policies she set in place. If Stonewall had ever made a statement about not condoning personal abuse, threats etc we might be in a better place today. I also wonder if she is trying to tone down her approach to look more employable to other big charities. I might feel a bit sympathetic if I didn’t know about the petition from some of the UK Stonewall founders, big name supporters, and other prominent LGBT people.

^ Rowantrees will know what I mean if she comes along

Wasn't it part of that TRA secret meeting where they all agreed they need to come across as reasonable as possible, and even pay lip service to women's rights sometimes so they can carry on with it all and no one would be able to argue? It's just part of that. It's "good" PR.

I’m just pondering the whole self ID thing.

We had a stalker at one place I worked - I’m sure the guy was convinced that he was fine and that we really were all in a conspiracy against him. That women were indeed ‘the enemy’ and he had every right to get in our faces and yell at us. He also believed that his meds were optional. Self ID, eh?

Floisme
Ruth Hunt said that?
Not really, no. It's quite an optimistic way of looking at it.
She still dismissed lesbians with concerns as just "people who are upset because we're focusing on trans rights, and they never wanted the T to be in the LGB in the first place. Most people disagree with them"
In response to Kristina Harrison's very clearly articulated argument against self ID, how it could bring problems etc, RH- "KH is confused. The definitions of man and woman were already decided back in 2004. The problem isn't trans rights, it's male violence. Changing laws intended to help trans people won't do anything to change male violence, bad things only happen when there's a failure of procedure"

She does not see anything to be concerned by. There are no grey areas for RH or Stonewall. She made it clear she's moving on but Stonewall will plough ahead without her.

Oh I was wrong, sorry, I thought she’d left already but she is still listed as a Chief Exec on their website. So must still be in post.
www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are-1

There is strangely nothing about it on her Twitter feed though

If anyone else had said a tenth if what she did they'd be buried under a pile of rainbows and blocked from Twitter by now...

I'm.confused

Even if she's leaving, if she's said that while still Stonewall CEO then I think it's very significant. I can't wait to see how Stonewall deal with it - whether they'll try and pretend it never happened or if we'll get an announcement that she's leaving earlier than expected.

It’s a very long way from where she was.
I wonder if her actual views are starting to show now she’s leaving Stonewall?

Ruth Hunt said that? The Ruth Hunt, CEO of Stonewall? (I think she's still in post at the moment isn't she?)

That's huge.

To the trained ear she revealed it wasnt a grey area at all.

She admitted that the assessment process is flawed and that the consequences were disastrous.

Therefore theres a simple answer which would solve everything.

Shame the interview however was so fractured that despite being given alot if what listeners needed to know to see how ridiculous it all is, it was done in such a way as to not be accessible to a regular person not really analysing it.

The avoidance was obvious though.

What a massive hypocrite Ruth Hunt is!

I’m sure Ruth Hunt is a bit fed up with lesbians reminding her how she chucked them under the bus when she was in charge of Stonewall (the charity that lesbians once helped to build..) but really given how what Ruth Hunt was advocating for only months ago... I am not sure how much leeway she can credibly be given for trying to distance herself from that and wring her hands a teensy bit and say that maybe women may have had a small point... but only in certain ‘grey areas’

I wonder if the HardTalk journalists were aware of the ‘Dear Stonewall, please reconsider your approach’ petition to Ruth’s-era Stonewall? Less than a year ago in summer 2018. Still open for signatures BTW and at about over 8,000 now.

(HT ecosomething for the following summary) this petition asks Stonewall to:

• Acknowledge that there are a range of valid viewpoints around sex, gender and transgender politics

• Acknowledge specifically the conflict that exists between transgenderism and sex-based women’s rights

• Commit to fostering an atmosphere of respectful debate, rather than demonising as transphobic those who wish to discuss or dissent from Stonewall’s current policies.

Link to Dear Stonewall petition here: www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

HardTalk Journalists could also see: Link to MN thread discussing the ‘Dear Stonewall’ petition, with lots of useful links to other threads with concerns in relation to the political stance of Stonewall in this area- and there are many concerns, unfortunately:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall?pg=1&order=

This includes many comments on the appalling ‘response’ from Ruth Hunt at Stonewall to this very petition after it raised such concerns in a respectful way, and only asking Stonewall for dialogue.

Stonewall’s response, authored by Ruth Hunt: basically tells us that *there is no clash with women’s rights so anyone who has those concerns isn’t going to get any response from Stonewall.

Eg in the Stonewall statement:
The [Dear Stonewall] petition asks us to acknowledge that there are a range of viewpoints around sex and gender. Of course we know that these differing views exist, and have existed for many years.

The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this. Doing so would imply that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others. However, we are unequivocal in our support of trans people’s – and everyone’s – right to equality and will remain so. Our motto is ‘acceptance without exception’.

Also in the same statement, the Stonewall CEO, Ruth Hunt, has a dig at Get the L Out, which is a group of six, (maybe eight?) peaceful, lesbian protestors at London Pride in 2018 who lay down in the road for a short while at the start of the Pride march, then peacefully marched along with everyone else- which they did to publicly raise concerns at the homophobia and misogyny behind transactivism.
A welcome act of truth-telling.

Of that, in the same statement the Stonewall CEO, Ruth Hunt said:

‘We know that there is huge support for trans rights from lesbian, gay and bi communities. The #LWithTheT movement sprang directly, and organically, in opposition to horrible transphobic demonstrations at events this summer, which aimed to make trans people at the events feel intimidated but in the end motivated a whole wave of lesbians and allies to loudly say that those angry voices don’t speak for them. That’s just one example.

Now is the time to make that support even more visible and vocal. Together we are stronger and can raise each other up. That’s as true for trans people today as it has been – and continues to be - for lesbian, gay and bi people through our history.

At Stonewall, we are absolutely committed to continue our work to ensure all trans people, as well as all lesbian, gay and bi people, are accepted for who they are in Britain and around the world.‘

Where were these grey areas then I wonder?

This is the link to the Ruth Hunt/Stonewall response to the petition in full:
www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-stories-category/come-out-lgbt/our-work-trans-equality-heart-our-mission-acceptance.

I don't see women's sport, prisons, refuges as 'grey areas'. They are for women. Men stay out. Ruth Hunt gets no plaudits from me for calling them grey areas.

Agree that public opposition and voicing concerns is helping. Thanks to everyone who has made efforts, we need to keep it up for younger women coming through.