Harry the Owl and others launching high court battle

I'd like to thank 2BoysandaCairn for providing Harry and his team with further evidence that the rot probably goes deeper than they thought.

This is what happens when the LGB is lumped in with the T. When sexual orientation is lumped in with identity.

Women here - and men - many of whom are part of the LGB - have noticed that the TRAs, lobbying on behalf of the T, are erasing women, lesbians, homosexuality, and biological reality.

You then end up with the ridiculous situation that Edward Lord, a white privileged male, can "identify" as non-binary and pretend they are under the Stonewall LGBTQ+ umbrella and terribly oppressed due to their "identity" - whilst systematically and undemocratically dismantling the sex-based rights of women in Central London.

Edward also remains a member that bastion of privileged male establishment, the Masons. You couldn't make it up.

Meanwhile, women are being physically attacked by TRAs for speaking. Women are being fired from their jobs, expelled from political parties for speaking. But god forbid a non-binary person has the reality pointed out to them that they really were born either male or female. That's nazism that is

The police do not make the laws, its your government. The police implement the law.

This is exactly what is supposed to happen. Humberside don’t. They have received training from a lobby group that has given them entirely false information and misrepresented the law.

I truly admire anyone who believes in their children, supports them and their diverse friends and is determined to fight injustice. I believe you when you say this is what you want.

But please please look around you, do a little research and you’ll realise that we are raising serious and well evidenced concerns here.

The law is based on GC position. The Equality Act is rooted in a GC position. Sex is the protected characteristic and underpins Sexual Orientation (Same Sex relationships). We are not Nazis for defending our rights that are explicitly written into law. A law that, as you have clearly stated, should be upheld by the police.

Well said, Clitherow.

No you only get your £5 if you correctly identify who provides Humberside police and cadets with their equalities training.

This.

I don't think this is PC Gul, but I strongly suspect we are talking to an older male uniformed community and cohesion officer masquerading as a member of the public.

I live in this police force area and it makes me sick that (if this person is a police officer) we are putting uniforms - and all the power that goes with them - on such ill-informed, unintelligent, emotionally-driven, irrationality.

This person either is a part of a group or strongly identifies with a group that has a strong grievance against society. Give irrational and entitled victimhood power and you are one step away from brutal abuse of that power because they feel justified in crushing their "oppressors." That's why that young man in Edinburgh felt justified in attacking Julie Bindel who is the dehumanised oppressor in his delusional world.

What really sickens me is the emphasis that this person is putting on cadets - they are obviously targetting the cadet scheme as a means of indoctrinating and channelling more PC Gul's into the force.

This is why we must support the Fair Cop campaign - If this madness gets any deeper into the police force, we are all in deep trouble.

Shock horror-your sons don't have to respect me. They just have to apply the law towards me in the same way they apply it to everyone else.

No you only get your £5 if you correctly identify who provides Humberside police and cadets with their equalities training

Dammit, I knew there'd be a catch. That question is soooooo hard.

Seriously, if this is the standard of mindless group think amongst Humberside police, then they - and their constituents - have a real problem.

No you only get your £5 if you correctly identify who provides Humberside police and cadets with their equalities training.

I remember when police officers, from a time when Harry was one, who wouldn't deal with DV

Many of them still don't, love. A woman who was fined by the police for wasting their time was recently murdered by the ex partner she was trying to report to them.

One example of dozens.

Here's a truth for you: people who are actually structurally oppressed do not have willing access to resources and institutions who will protect them from that oppression.

So when you give your endless lists about police (cadets or otherwise) initiating engagement with trans and non binary groups, it's an indication of a lack of structural oppression, not a brownie point for the police. And when you gloat that they never initiate engagement with women's and feminist groups, it's an indication that these are oppressed groups, not a stick to beat those groups with.

Your endless splattering of this board with demands and harangues that have nothing to do with the case being brought is also an indication that women are never to be allowed a place to speak to each other without male supervision and critique.

I'd say: why don't you think on that? But I know you won't. And I also know why you won't.

My son said when you say to a non binary or trans person you can't be that, so no your not a women your a man, you are saying they are not real or actually you are saying they are less human/non human compared to you.

How can calling someone a man be saying they are “less human”? Men are humans.

My son said when you say to a non binary or trans person you can't be that, so no your not a women your a man, you are saying they are not real or actually you are saying they are less human/non human compared to you. That's not free speech, to them, it comes from a place of hatred. It what the Nazi's did to Jews

You are PC Gul and I claim my five pounds

What utter drivel.

Yep. No other purpose than to splatter the board with histrionic claptrap driven by an absolute entitlement to demand the compliance of women. And absolutely no self awareness to understand this either.

Pointless engaging.

You've just admitted your son thinks there is a hierarchical status for humans, then said we are Nazi's.
Think about that for a while.

My son said when you say to a non binary or trans person you can't be that, so no your not a women your a man, you are saying they are not real or actually you are saying they are less human/non human compared to you.

Can you explain more about this, how is refusing to believe a fiction, while perfectly respecting the persons right to present how they with causing them to be less human?
Are you implying being a man or a woman is a less in your mind?
That's disgusting.

Speak to Penny Mordaunt

Now I've heard everything. There really is no point carrying on with this, is there?

Surely police cadets are under 18? Personally I'm surprised that Humberside police are involving children in such activities described, given that the VPC website suggests they will be doing things like supporting older members of the community understand cyber crime, fund raising for charities and road safety campaigns.

I would have thought employing children to advise minority groups about 'hate crimes' would appear to be beyond their remit.

vpc.police.uk/about-us/

I'm a nazi for believing this is a man? A convicted rapist who sexually assaulted multiple women in a female prison?

My son said when you say to a non binary or trans person you can't be that, so no your not a women your a man, you are saying they are not real or actually you are saying they are less human/non human compared to you. That's not free speech, to them, it comes from a place of hatred. It what the Nazi's did to Jews

🙄

God, there is no hope for our police force. What utter drivel.

Biological reality is not Nazism. Seriously, 2boys, it's really not.

And incidentally absolutely loads of women who post here are gay. Gender non conformity goes hand in hand with being CG. Trans people also post. And whilst we're about it, transgenderism is deeply homophonic.

Stonewall utterly refuse to accept that homosexuality is based on same sex attraction.

Most feminists are left wing. They align themselves with minorities, support them. Always have. Do you really think they've all turned into right wing bigots overnight??

Plus as a previous poster points out there are hundreds of thousands of transpeople, but only 5000 with a GRC. Therefore the chances of self identification amongst those you know is almost guaranteed.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Sorry! 2boys

Have you been following this issue 4boys ?
Did you read Penny M's web chat where she studiously ignored the elephant in the room?
You still advising us to go and talk to them? Where, when, how? They have their fingers in their ears. Are you aware of the prison debacle presided over by this gov where fully intact , no GRc men have been transferred into women's prisons?
The police too has been acting as though self-id is the law. They need challenging.

This speech/thought policing only works the one way. Endless rape, death, violence threats are left alone but a silly poem is followed up?!!

The police do not make the laws

Humberside have.....

So why should my kids respect you
I don’t think you’d ask that if you had daughters.

A citizen of the Uk complains to a police force and says it's offensive to them as a trans person, which I believe they are a protected characteristic under the harassment act of 1997.

Having a GRC is a protected characteristic. About 5,000 have been issued in the UK. Either a seriously disproportionate number have wound up in the Humberside police cadets, or some of those you refer to are self-ID. Which is in essence what the whole debate is about. If the Humberside police are assuming self-ID IS the law, then their interpretation is wrong. Which is why police interpretation needs to be challenged.

My son said when you say to a non binary or trans person you can't be that, so no your not a women your a man, you are saying they are not real or actually you are saying they are less human/non human compared to you.

There is a difference between sex and gender. Almost everyone (unless they have a specific medical disorder) has either XX or XY chromosomes. That determines their sex. Gender is a social construct and honestly it can be whatever you say it is. It is, essentially, a belief and people can believe what they want. Women want to preserve sex-based spaces. Saying people cannot change sex is not saying someone is not real. How can it be? You cant change your chromosomes or basic biology however much extreme surgery you have or hormones you take.

Again it is important to clarify police interpretation of the law around sex and gender and protected characteristics.

Guess what not one women's group or feminist group have asked for their presence or bother with them.

Surprise, surprise. Most women are busy working and paying the taxes that help fund the police, raising children, looking after elderly parents, etc. Most live ordinary lives and don't belong to groups. As for inviting cadets. It is a pity that your boys don't seem to have the contact with women in their lives that would help them understand the importance of single sex spaces such as prisons, refuges and leisure centre changing rooms. My understanding is that it is difficult enough to organise meetings of groups such as WPUK or FPFW, with meeting locations given out about an hour in advance, without informing the police in advance. (Not that such meetings are illegal, the problem would probably be a fear that given the apparent police interpretation of the law around hate, it would be an invitation to have the meeting closed down, or that word would get out to protesters.)

Again a reason to clarify that the police are correctly interpreting the law. If they consider stating biological reality as a hate crime, this is a serious constraint on free speech.

This is not about Harry. This is about how the police interpret rules around free speech.

Your posts have been useful as they appear to reflect accurately the current thinking within the Humberside police. I believe this thinking is wrong, which is why I contributed to the Faircop campaign.

There is a constant need to conflate issues because the whole TRA agenda is so misogynistic and harmful to women and girl's rights. Well 2Boys I've been assaulted for standing up for my gay mates and had rocks thrown at me protesting against the National Front so quit trying to portray anyone with the critical faculties to see the issues with trans activism as a right wing bigot.
The speech below has been reported as hate speech. Please read it and either explain why or understand why we are taking a stand on this issue of using the police to stifle entirely valid debate.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3595007-Leeds-Councillor-thanks-Mumsnet-FWR-in-gender-critical-speech

Look I get you don't approve of trans rules, I don't agree with self ID, but then again all the trans people I know and have dealt with aren't self ID'ers. They are full post operation or in final stages of transition.

The bit I disapprove of is this faircop campaign. The police do not make the laws, its your government. The police implement the law.
So Harry the Owl posts a re-tweet of a poem, an unfunny one and some say a shit one.
A citizen of the Uk complains to a police force and says it's offensive to them as a trans person, which I believe they are a protected characteristic under the harassment act of 1997. The report gets logged as a possible hate crime/incident, it is investigated and Harry is rang by an officer and ask why he posted it, officer says ok and agrees no crime, incident is recorded as hate incident on police database. why is that wrong, why shouldn't the police investigate it and ask?
Because if he had re-tweeted a crap poem about lesbians/gay/black/travellers/Muslims/all women been cheap/all women are worthless etc. I bet you would want the police to investigate it and ring the poster to ask, or would you not?

So to me, it is only because Harry posted a poem on your beloved GC that you support him and also all the others, because they all, are GC supporters.

SO here's my question if it was to support Danny Baker against the police/bbc or George Galloway against talksport or the brexit party knob who posted rape comments to a female MP, would all of you given your money?
I bet the answer is no and I bet most, I hope most would expect them to speak to a police officer too.
If you wouldn't give to them or a neo-Nazi, if they set up a fundraiser, I certainly won't, you aren't interested in free speech, you are hypocrites.

I wish you well, but please be honest, this isn't about free speech for all, it is just for your pet project, and that's why I don't support you, because I don't support free speech for racists, bigots and thugs. I can't pick who deserves less to be free to be abused.

As Humberside say, if people report a possible crime and we ignore, we send them the picture we don't care. But they do.
If you drive around Hull you will see 2 pride supporting cars, but there are at least 10 DV issue cars in the same area, so you see Humberside can and do support both women and trans.

I remember when police officers, from a time when Harry was one, who wouldn't deal with DV, it was a man's right. Wouldn't take seriously attacks on gays, they deserve it. The modern police force, which even it admits gets it wrong, is ten times better then that. Humberside have sacked at least 4 officers for failing to deal with stalking/rape and similar issues, all where older officers.
The culture of policing is changing, has Harry found out.

The lbgt, bame and DV victims we know all say not soon enough.

Fight self ID. But don't be hypocrites. One man's free speech is another person's bigotry.