Foster children (3 and 7) transitioning. Times article

Child H and his brother child C had both suffered severe physical abuse before being taken into care and placed with TP and CP when they were both still babies.

Pencils - I just want to applaud your judicious use of apostrophes in that post

Ffs

Young foster kids must have been through so much already. They cant possibly be in any fit state to know anything right now.

Vegan cat sums it up perfectly

Well, this is sickening 😥

That the only national service for gender questioning children can be over ruled by a person in private practice, with no expertise in children?
Fuck.

Does anyone know if SS can appeal this decision or is this judge’s word final?

From what I understand, SS had sought permission from the court to drop the case after the 'expert' opinions had been sought. Nobody opposed this decision but the 'parents' wanted to go to court anyway so they would not be 'left with a cloud of suspicion over their heads'.

So that worked well.

The evidence in this case bears several similarities to that presented in the Challenor case

I'm glad this awful case has had a decent write up. The previous daily mail piece didn't make clear what had happened.

also that they were experiencing financial difficulties

They have a family swimming pool. Just saying.

This is so shocking, the judge sounds a naive idiot.

Does anyone know if SS can appeal this decision or is this judge’s word final?

This is appalling. I note that the mother is an ex-social worker (it doesn't state the father's occupation) who gave up work after her children were born.

There was more than one reference to the parents asking to foster still more children and also that they were experiencing financial difficulties.

Doesn't take a genius to join the dots.

R was seven when that was said.

I've looked at the court report now. I am not a lawyer and I have no relevant experience professionally or personally in any of the issues in this case. However, just from my own experience as a parent, particularly of a parent of a child diagnosed as being on the spectrum while in primary school, alarm bells were ringing there as I looked at what's gone on in this family.

From the judgment:

"In September 2013 R told a member of the school staff that she did not think life was worth living but no further local authority involvement followed and it seems that R was under the care of the local CAMHS was also having some ongoing contact with the Tavistock and with the Mermaid Group (a support group recommended by the Tavistock)".

Interesting that the judge refers to Mermaids as being recommended by the Tavistock.

Is Paterski MTF as it's a male name, Paterska would be the female version, however it could just be as they are American they have anglicised the name.

It's becoming more common to keep one form of the surname for the whole family now in the UK, or at least in my experience. Particularly for second/third generations born in the UK or brits marrying into a polish family (since British names don't have gendered endings), so I don't think that alone is indicative of a transition.

This ruling is horrifying. Absolutely terrifying that the last bastion of protection for these children has failed so miserably. Hopefully this will open more eyes in the public, but for those children it will be too late. They will never be able to grow up and find out who they really are or might have been had they been in a placement that protected them. That chance has been taken away from them and it's heartbreaking.

I've just read the other thread; definitely a link to Dr Webberly.

The 'evidence about desistence rates' Pasterski queries is clearly what happens when children are coerced and told untruths.

There a difference between allowing a child to enjoy their interests and telling them lies about their body leading to unnecessary medicine to fix an imaginary illness. I've seen the former play out very healthily.

I am glad that social services actually heard the alarm bells ringing and at least tried to do something about it.

I hope that judge feels really really bad when the truth finally dawns on her/him. And that the kids manage somehow to thrive.

I am betting that Vickie is not an expert on attachment disorders in fostered children.

Who are the referrals to for the medical interventions?

Clinical Research & Practice. From 2008 to 2016, Vickie worked as a Clinical Research Psychologist in Paediatric Endocrinology at Addenbrooke’s Hospital, Cambridge University NHS Trust. There she was a primary contributing member of a multidisciplinary team charged with diagnosis and clinical management of DSD. Also since 2008, Vickie has maintained a private clinical practice, diagnosing gender dysphoria and providing referrals for gender affirming medical interventions. She is recognized by the UK Ministry of Justice as a Gender Specialist, providing reports for Gender Recognition Certificate applicants. She has helped more than 500 individuals transition and maintains working relationships with surgeons and gender specialists in Europe, North America, and Asia.

Sorry for double post

The whole subject of Munchausens by proxy, also called fabricated or induced illness (FII) is fraught with peril for medical practitioners. The persecution of David Southall throughout his career by MAMA and the press would be sufficient to warn anyone off from getting involved.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Southall#Respiratory_research_and_child_protection_work

It's desperately sad for all the children affected by FII that there can be no rescue for them. And truly grim to see transing of children being added to the range of damaging behaviours perpetrated by FII parents/carers. It would be interesting to know how many of the parents on those American forums for parents of 'transkids' that were published recently are actually affected by FII.

The whole subject of Munchausens by proxy, also called fabricated or induced illness (FII) is fraught with peril for medical practitioners. The persecution of David Southall throughout his career by MAMA and the press would be sufficient to warn anyone off from getting involved.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Southall#Respiratory_research_and_child_protection_work

It's desperately sad for all the children affected by FII that there can be no rescue for them. And truly grim to see transing of children being added to the range of damaging behaviours perpetrated by FII parents/carers. It would be interesting to know how many of the parents on those American forums for parents of 'transkids' that were published recently are actually affected by FII.

Pasterski’s view is disputed by the NHS’s gender identity development service (Gids) clinic

Thank goodness this judge didn't listen to the doctor's.

Interesting background

www.thelondontransgenderclinic.uk/our-transgender-surgery-practice-london/dr-vickie-pasterski/

Glad this is getting the light of day. I don't think this is the end of the case.

It will be a while until this sort of thing makes it into safeguarding training case examples unfortunately but the sooner it does the better.

It is the same case as the other thread Orchid posted.

Glad Gilligan thoroughly covered it. Here is the full judgement:

www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2019/30.html

A previous judge in the case, HHJ Singleton QC, was the one who gave permission for Pasterski to be used as the "gender" expert.