AIBU to think the US deserves the Govt it's got?

No, not talking about the primaries - talking about the muppets who went for "write-ins" - admittedly the effect was probably tiny, but in some swing states so were the margins.

I agree that in the primaries it was perfectly legitimate to vote for him, and the whole outcome might have looked very different.

Fermats

I am confused about why they shouldn't have voted for Sanders against Clinton in the primaries? That did not make Trump more likely to win, and it is what they are for.
There is some analysis that suggests that had Sanders won the primaries, he would have won against Trump. So you could say that people who voted for Clinton simply because they thought she was more electable made the wrong choice.

But I don't think I'd characterise a vote for Sanders in teh primaries as looking ideological purity. I think people voted for him because they liked his policies better.

"No one voted for Sanders against Trump though."

They did however vote Sanders against Clinton, wanting to make a point about the ideologically purity of their vote. And in doing so, increased Trump's chances of getting in - a fact which should have been obvious to anyone who read the newspapers/followed the news in the run up to the election.

The thing that struck me as an outside, with many American friends who I chat to regularly, was how convinced the liberal establishment seemed to be that they'd walk it - even post Brexit, even though if you showed, without captions, two graphs of timelines for opinion polls in the run up to both elections, they looked damn near identical (2 to 3 point lead for Remain/Clinton, wavering a bit around that average). They should have seen the risk coming, they didn't.

On the day, one of my American friends who lives in Michigan and who for decades has volunteered to drive registered Democrat voters to the polls if they're too ill or infirm to get there, said she knew something was up because no one, literally no-one, was phoning up for lifts.

Yes the numerical majority was for Clinton. But something went horribly, horribly wrong for her in the crucial blue collar/rural swing states. Or rather, a number of things. She didn't put enough effort into the black vote, just took it for granted. She made that stupid "Basket of Deplorables" comment. She didn't say enough about what she was going to do about genuine economic deprivation.

And technically more people voted for Clinton. But she lost because of their system.

True. And yet an awful lot of people in this country are currently trying to ignore/overrule a simple tally of individual votes from the referendum. Doesn't seem to please the losing side any better.

I'm sure they can come up with a justification of why that's different though!

No one voted for Sanders against Trump though.

Heck, people voted for Obama to get change and he delivered more neoliberal status quo.

I read a really interesting case study the other day that this reminds me of.
It was written by a Marxist woman from a working class background, about her parents, who voted for Trump. She was trying to show that to simplify his success down to Evangelical white racists who hate everything was far too simplistic.
Her parents were working class, and very involved in the church. However, they were Mexican speaking Hispanics, big in the union movement for many years, big into education and healthcare movements for the working classes, hugely politically active, kind, well read. They voted for Obama twice.
Of course there was no way they could vote for Clinton. But the daughter says she asked them, how could you trust that Trump will be a class traitor and do what he says. And their response was "Well, we trust Trump like we trusted Obama. He didn't really stand on our side of the line in the end when it came down to us and the bankers."

It makes me very angry when professional white university educated progressives look down their noses and can't imagine why anyone would vote for Trump.

People I am angry with:

Clinton for making that "Basket of Deplorables" comment - did she not realise how that would play out for her? How did she think that sounded to a wavering voter in Illinois or Michigan, who had good friends and family voting Trump out of economic desperation? (NB - that doesn't mean I think she shouldn't have become president - she would have been so much better than Trump. But it does mean I think she made a huge tactical mistake in her campaigning, one that someone with her experience should have avoided).

All the left-leaning voters who voted for Bernie or Jill because they didn't want to dirty their hands voting for Clinton, despite knowing that it was a two-horse race, and that their vote materially lessened the chances of Hillary getting in. (Again, that doesn't mean I think Hillary was perfect: the criticisms of her as too establishment and too embedded in the status quo were spot on. But realistically it was her or Trump, and pretty much anyone would have been better than Trump).

But I don't think America "got the government it deserved" because half the population didn't vote that way, and of the half that did, quite a substantial proportion really were being fucked over by the system - and if the political establishment lets the voters get that disaffected with main stream politics because they don't give a shit about people outside their own core voter base - well, they bear the responsibility for not doing anything.

I don't have a problem with the electoral college in concept. It's the same idea as having a congress which is population based an a senate which is region based, it's trying to reflect a similar balance in the executive branch.
No one would say an EU country with greater population should have more say than one with a small population - that's the kind of thing people would really get their knickers in a twist about, so the system is designed to make sure it doesn't happen.

The person who gets most blame for the fact that Trump is president is undoubtedly Hillary Clinton.

She achieved the seemingly impossible by losing to the worst Republican candidate ever to stand for the presidency, despite actually winning the popular vote. It simply beggars belief that she could have run such an awful campaign, with absolutely nothing to say to the “left behind” voters in “rust belt” states who are the victims of globalisation.

The left needs to get real, stop obsessing about identity politics and political correctness and start listening to the concerns of ordinary working people of all backgrounds.

I think increasingly we see other countries turning up their noses at America, look at the reception than Mike pence got in Germany

Soon their only allies will be the 'shitholes' decried by Trump, the first world will turn its back on America as it descends into greater and greater corruption and inequality

Well that is how democracy works. People get who they vote for (hung parliaments being an obvious exception). I suppose you could argue that America doesn’t deserve this and the democrats are to blame for putting forward such an appalling candidate. But I think it’s not necessary. They voted (or didn’t) and trump for president was the result.

You could argue that trying to push that global capitalism bullshit, and identity politics, on the voters, the backroom people and funders of the Democrats elected Trump.

I think this is a large part of it too - the people who implemented NAFTA have said they never expected impacts to happen so quickly and that with hindsight they’d have put safeguards in place to protect industries. Globalisation has macro benefits for economies but the harms land heavily on individuals - Republicans were good at tapping into that fear.

DpWm, letter leaked a day before Barr's summary of Mueller's report stated that it was completely misrepresented. Mueller will testify next week and set the record straight.

Is it a plutocracy or a corporatocracy
(Or just a big ole clusterfuck)

I do not give a toss what the yanks do or don't deserve. It's the world that concerns me, and the increasingly malign influence over it of the USA, its bullying military, its cesspit social media companies and unsustainable consumption of the Earth's finite resources.

Look at the amount of money spent on elections in america. Think about the decades that politicians and those working in politics have been actively skewing voting boundaries and rules to enable them to control vote outcomes. Thousands of people make a living from manipulating voters and being able to do it successfully and social media has given them ever greater tools to be able to do so.

The whole industry of electioneering is designed to take away the ability of individuals to hold power to account.

Most people didn’t vote for him, he lost the popular vote ie more people voted for HC. The electoral college system, designed to make sure that elections aren’t decided by only the most populated states, determined the outcome. The states she won had more people in them but he won more states. It’s a fucked up system but, in a democracy, you win some you lose some, it’s too simplistic to blame the voters when their choices are limited by what the system dictates.

YABU the US is an oligarchy
It's a plutocracy.

The report was not a limp wristed write off
Barr's summary of the report was a limp wristed write off
we have not seen the full unredacted report
Barr has submitted to trump and made himself trump's lackey
Meuller is not trump's lackey

YABU the US is an oligarchy and their governments have not been reflecting Popular will for a very long time. Heck, people voted for Obama to get change and he delivered more neoliberal status quo. Trump is just a symptom.

I don't know that you can blame people directly for Trump. Their citizens vote with enormous cynicism, because that is really the only way they can vote.

Hilary Clinton was absolutely the wrong candidate, and ran a terrible campaign. You could argue that trying to push that global capitalism bullshit, and identity politics, on the voters, the backroom people and funders of the Democrats elected Trump.

Americans really have some wonky thinking on some things - I am consistently shocked by the number that really believe that it is ok to fire people without cause, but they are probably some of the least empowered voters in any western country.

A bit harsh to phrase it "The US deserves it" mind.
No 11 year old rape victim should be forced to give birth (as recent case in Ohio). She definitely didn't deserve it.

Erm, some of the people who voted for him were actively nasty but a lot were carried along with the nostalgia and simplicity of the message. A bit like brexit really.

Mueller got John Gotti (head of the Gambino crime family), Trump's days are numbered
That's very optimistic seeing as his report on Trump was such a limp wristed write off
when Trump was there for the taking. Mueller so far has shown no backbone wrt Trump / the Russians.

It's not like America is in isolation though - trump's decisions affect the whole world so the question should be 'does the world deserve trump?' and I think the answer is no.

America is the second biggest contributor to carbon levels (after China I believe) but trump isn't going to do anything because he's a climate change denier. Climate change is going to affect us all.

Can you tell I can't stand trump?!