Stephen Fry backs P Tatchell's call to revise sex education

I have also just clocked adults who sexually exploit youngsters often get away with it because the victims feel embarrassed or guilty about sex and are therefore reluctant to report it
Rape is not “sex” . Exploited and abused children don’t report it for a multitude of reasons, mostly put in their heads by the abuser. Not because they feel guilty about sex
Then there is the whole sex is a human right trope.
Plus the don’t kink shame trope.
God the whole thing is so deeply creepy. I feel actually freaked out now I have read it in full. I had only read half of it yesterday.

How did we all manage to grow up and have loving relationships and sex lives without creepy Peter Tatchel to tell us how ? Amazing.

Anyone thinking of writing to their MP - this is an excellent impact assessment of some of the dire guidance around at the moment that removes the rights of children, in particular girls, in favour of the rights of certain groups of adults to gaslight and groom children

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CRIA-Allsorts-Toolkit.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2Ncm9WWoc-ikaW0XJV79w4rzaREgVqr_-aWa_xgS6MhL3hncjUqFVGu1g

I agree with you justhadathought at 16:05 .

Lilliths I was just thinking the same. I haven't read the whole thread, just the link - last year I would have felt confident that this attempt from PT would have been swiftly dismissed by Dept. education, now I'm not so sure.

I was going to write to D Hinds and cc my MP and Min of Families and mention that no such inclusion of trans ideology should be taught. A petition would be better instead. How to phrase it though?

Endof I think they know exactly how schools work. They want to pretend parents have an opt-out whilst making it physically impossible for parents to opt-out in practise.

I hope this letter gets lots of publicity. Everyone needs to see exactly what Peter Tatchell and Stephen Fry are pushing here. The current climate is emboldening all the PIE apologists and promoters whilst certain 'liberals' conveniently look the other way.

Has anyone written a petition or joint letter espousing the view that Tatchell and Fry should be kept as far away as possible from sex education for children?

It really does sound to me as if Peter Tatchell is trying to work through his own sexual abuse as a child. He finds it difficult to frame or name as abuse because even in such circumstances pleasurable sensations can sometimes be experienced. What's more our early sexual experiences stay with us and shape our responses, and our imagination, in adulthood.

The howls of upset when the government announced tighter controls on access to pornography - suggests that it is adults who have issues around sex - not children
Yy ^

If you want young people to have a healthy view of sex, then it’s something that needs to be talked about and normalised. Obviously finding the best way to achieve that is difficult, and there will always be someone that is unhappy, but the most important thing is fully informed young people who can be safe, say no and feel confident doing it, rather than being considered ‘frigid’

Sex and relationship education has been a part of the curriculum since I was of that age in 1970's. It is nothing new, and not something that isn't already being covered.The best way to lean about sex in any other meaningful way is by doing it. That's how we all learnt, surely.

You can't educate people out of poor behaviour and disrespect. Behaviour and respect is learnt through upbringing and what is witnessed around that person.

Pornography is omnipresent as it is, and difficult for today's children to avoid. The solution to that is not to be teaching children about sex in such explicit and inappropriate ways.

Pornography needs to be more difficult to access, for a start - and adults need to take responsibility for what they view. The howls of upset when the government announced tighter controls on access to pornography - suggests that it is adults who have issues around sex - not children.

What's happened to safeguarding FFS?

So the two men who are promoting the queering of sex education for children, one thinks children can have healthy relationships with adults, the other is on record as saying women only have sex "because sex is the price they are willing to pay for a relationship".

Even if they totally skipped discussing technique (ew) lessons created by these men, delivered in a mixed sex environment, are a recipe for misogyny and bullying of girls.

A few people have mentioned the notorious Tatchell letter to the Guardian where he endorses sexual relationships between adults and children.

Let's not forget, either, the obituary he wrote in 1998 of Ian Campbell Dunn:

www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/obituary-ian-dunn-1151494.html

The obituary begins:

"IAN DUNN was a pioneer for lesbian and gay human rights, remaining a central figure in the battle for homosexual equality - in Scotland and internationally - for 30 years."

Strangely, it fails to mention that Dunn was co-founder of the Paedophile Information Exchange.

Odd, huh?

As there are a significant number of civil servants and government advisers busy removing the rights of their female colleagues to sex segregated spaces and ensuring that the special interest lobby groups get heard over and above all professionals, I would expect him to be given a seat at the SRE planning table very swiftly. These men have no interest in safeguarding children.

And why the fuck would any teenager need lessons on how to masturbate? The whole point of doing it yourself is that you figure out what you like. I think there does need to be more emphasis towards girls that masturbation is nothing to be ashamed of - it's not needed towards boys, they are constantly talking about wanking, but for girls it's still quite a taboo subject that many women don't admit to, because of misogyny and patriarchy.

But as to how to actually do it? No, Tatchell can keep his filthy paws away thanks.

I just cannot fathom how Peter Tatchell is taken seriously after he wrote that fucking disgusting letter about relationships between adults and children. He is an odious creep who shouldnt be anywhere fucking near sex education policy formation.

The more I think about this the more uneasy I am. Adults with a significant public profile (and no qualifications) feel able to demand that children must be compelled to undergo compulsory talks about sex. Children of all ages will be forced to undergo these sessions regardless of their personal wishes, any SEN, history of abuse, mental health concerns, religious / cultural issues.

Indeed.

No one involved in educating children should be taking advice on communicating with them about sex from someone who believes it’s ok for adults to have sex with children.

I remind everyone that Tatchell has previously said that not all adult sexual relationships with children are harmful...

For an idea of what this might look like, see the LGBT Foundation's International Masturbation Day program of gender neutral events about wanking (not a joke).

They have sessions on wanking for "anyone who self-identifies as a woman, some or all the time", or a man or non-binary. (so if you're gender fluid I guess you can go to all three?)

Then after they've finished wanking, their sex festival continues... with sessions on fetish, queer sex, bondage and sex work. Biological females get a look in - with a session on period poverty, FFS. (I'm getting increasingly suspicious of this emphasis on period poverty.)

It's a particular view of a particular kind of sex. It's kink as mainstream, but this what LGBT orgs seem to be about these days.

It this what Peter Tatchell means by sex positive?

(Mumsnet thread on the wanking day here).

The more I think about this the more uneasy I am. Adults with a significant public profile (and no qualifications) feel able to demand that children must be compelled to undergo compulsory talks about sex. Children of all ages will be forced to undergo these sessions regardless of their personal wishes, any SEN, history of abuse, mental health concerns, religious / cultural issues.

Where has this arrogance come from? Why would they feel it is appropriate to ride roughshod over decades of expertise in how you teach sensitive subjects to children?

It's because we are living in a world where men are increasingly able to remove women and children's rights. Where porn blights children's lives and where governments are so fearful of aggressive self interest lobbies that they back away and allow these groups to deliberately target children - with demands like this.

There are a lot of self-identified experts on what curriculum should be taught to children about sex and relationships in the classroom.

This is what worries me - not the teaching, but who gets to decide what is taught and how. Once this becomes compulsory it needs constant sunlight and oversight (who by? )

There does need to be much more about actual relationships and how to negotiate them in all aspects of life ie friendships, work etc, and how to look after yourself.

This supposed training programme has obviously been put together by people who have no knowledge of safeguarding, the current PSHE curriculum or what children actually need wrt sex ed.

This is a programme that barely touches on relationships - it prioritises sexual technique over teaching about coercive control.

It aims to glamorise oral sex and mutual masturbation for kids 16+ in a sex positive environment, and suggest that this would mean that girls didn't need to take the pill any more. Because - encouraging kids to have oral sex & heavy petting won't lead to PIV and teen pregnancy - oh no, how could that possibly happen?

WTAF!!

Peter T wants to teach your children that they have:

a fundamental human right to love an adult person of any gender, to engage in any mutually consensual, harmless sexual act with them and to share a happy, healthy sex life.

Is there any possibility of the Education Minister taking this “proposal” seriously - does anyone know?

The more I read and hear of the experiences of Danish women, the less I see Denmark as the great bastion of progressiveness that it is made out to be

Denmark was one of the last countries in Europe to make bestiality illegal and that was only in the last couple of years.

2 late middle aged, childfree, homosexual men, one of whom doesn't seem to have even maintained a relationship and neither of whom has any qualifications in paediatrics, sociology, psychology, biology, medicine or teaching. Would not be my first go to for advice.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Exactly, it’s a bit like learning to drive, you learn how to do it safely, the law, to be a courtesous road user etc. But you don’t truly learn to drive until you’re out there doing it on your own.