Debbie Hayton in the TES

Debbie, while you’re here could you shed some light on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582469-Does-anyone-know-why-the-Graham-Linehan-fundraiser-is-coming-up-on-google-as-being-for-Debbie-Hayton? It’s all rather confusing.

@EluphNaugeMeop That is a very good point. The TES have a business to run and their staff need to be paid. The printed magazine is £3.50.

@Plattercake. In this gender debate, language is so politicised that communication can become difficult. Please don't worry. I always assume that people mean well until I am absolutely convinced that they don't.

@KatvonHostileExtremist Thanks. I'm trying to hold firm to my principles. One thing that did take me by surprise when I researched the piece was the speed at which things changed between the Cornwall Guidance (2012) and Allsorts Guide (2014). The way in which basic safeguarding was put to one side was remarkable. Probably it was Claire Graham who first got me thinking on those lines. She is a superb person to follow btw.

It's a great article but even if you have read a pirate copy online please everyone go to your nearest big newsagent and track down a physical copy of the TES and buy it. Newspaper publishers are struggling to break even and whilst pay walls are irritating, journalists and editors do have mortgage/rent, bills and nutritional needs. We need to funnel money into the media sources who publish reasonable, factual articles and who amplify the voices of rational trans people like Debbie. If every time there is a good article like this the publishers notice a jump in sales then the message will get out more.

please forgive my typo, I did not mean to write male transwoman person, I was trying to be careful over language and did not proof read properly. The way I wrote it sounded disrespectful, but that was not my intention. person bit is a typo.

This is fantastic news.

How great to finally get some gc sense into schools. This is really important, it's been all one way up to now. This really helps give Transgender Trend credibility.

TT view was the norm up until very recently. The speed at which the TRAs have pushed their agenda has been terrifying.

debbie I salute you.

From reading Lang's quoted piece, this seems good, but I agree with Dodo that whilst the proponent is a male transwoman person who uses women's single sex spaces, we have a fundamental problem with its integrity. Any hypocrisy undermines the aims and gives wriggle room to opponents (and really makes me raise my eyebrows)

Obviously children in school have particular requirements, captive and vulnerable as they are, but children also exist out of school and need single sex and safeguarded provision outside of school as well and their mothers do too.

The is already some Genderist shitbag on the thread asking Debbie how many kids she's abused.

1. Fuck me Debbie has some balls to keep ploughing on with this despite all the crap she gets.

1. These knob-jockeys (I'm feeling sweary tonight) really do have no idea that every time they wade into a rational discussion with their awful behaviour they are making the argument for us.

Actually, I phrased that badly.

There are definitely transwomen I would have many more qualms about than about Debbie - of course there are. But the dividing line should be sex, not 'declared gender plus a certain level of commitment, familiarity and niceness'.

Fair enough, Truth, but although I like and appreciate much of what Debbie is doing, I deeply disagree with the idea of excluding some transwomen and not others, presumably on the grounds of niceness. That's no sort of boundary.

Link to Transgender Trend School resources as highlighted in the TES article:

(extract)
We have designed the document to be fully comprehensive and cover all areas because this is such a new phenomenon that teachers are facing and existing guidance is so one-sided, but each individual section may be printed out and used separately if needed.

For this work, Stephanie Davies-Arai was nominated and shortlisted for the John Maddox Prize 2018, a joint initiative of the charity Sense About Science and the science journal Nature, which “recognises the work of individuals who promote sound science and evidence on a matter of public interest, facing difficulty or hostility in doing so.”

www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

Point taken LangCleg. There has been so little direct challenge to the gaslighting happening in schools via the trans lobby groups that maybe I am over anxious about diluting the message.

truthisarevolutionaryact

Discussing the need for appropriate provision of female single sex spaces in schools is very relevent to policy makers.

This is a Safeguarding issue.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to derail this thread with your views DodoPatrol

No. It's fair comment. Something Debbie has no problem with. These things must be aired without women tone policing each other lest it make someone uncomfortable.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to derail this thread with your views DodoPatrol

There is a huge concern that schools are only hearing the misleading and legally incorrect opinions of trans lobby groups so a trans teacher highlighting the safeguarding issues in the TES is massively important.

I will be more impressed when Debbie leads by example and uses only male or designated mixed-sex facilities.

I have nothing against Debbie personally but want single-sex to remain a clear and unambiguous option.

Thank you Debbie.
Well done for getting this into the TES.

article by ExcelPope (a school governor) identifying how Safeguarding should work:
(extract)
"I spend a lot of time designing policies and procedures, and what I tell people is this:- Imagine a worst-case scenario occurs. There is an official investigation, where you’re asked “What did you do to prevent this happening?”. Now imagine what answer you’d like to be able to give to that question in that scenario – that’s the starting point for writing your policies.

In that vein, here’s a scenario.

You are the head-teacher of a secondary school, with pupils aged 11-18. A police officer arrives at the school and asks to speak to you. They have found a video on a porn site which shows the changing-rooms at your school, including a number of girls, who appear to be aged 13-15, in various states of undress. It has clearly been filmed with a concealed camera-phone.

The video has been taken down, but not before it had tens of thousands of views. The account that posted it has been traced to a student at the school who identifies themselves as trans and was, in accordance with the guidance, allowed to use the female changing rooms.

The police need a female member of staff to view the video with them, to identify the 20 or 30 teenage girls who appear in it, so that they and their parents can be informed that they have been victims of voyeurism.

What did you do to prevent this happening?" (continues)

There are around 2.2 million males aged 13-18 in the UK, no matter how much experience you have with children, with trans people, with trans-children, you cannot absolutely assert that none of them will abuse, or attempt to abuse, the guidance given in a manner that infringes of the rights of other students.

This isn’t about demonising all trans people, or suggesting that any given one of them would act in such a manner. This is about the risk presented by the guidance itself, whether that risk can be mitigated in a manner which is proportional to the potential seriousness of the outcome and whether the risk is, in part or in whole, outweighed by the risks of not implementing the guidance." (continues)

excelpope.wordpress.com/2019/02/28/the-unaskable-question/

Best practice for females is to have single sex spaces. This is for safety, dignity & privacy.

Yes.

Debbie has mentioned regularly using female facilities, as has Kristina Harrison. I think this would make it hard to stop any other males on the same premises using the women & girls’ toilets / changing rooms if they identify as trans, because there’s now a precedent.

Which is unfortunate.

from the article:
For sex-based policies, the following would be best practice:
• Regarding toilets, changing rooms and residential trips, separate provision – private facilities such as “accessible” toilets, individual changing cubicles and showers, and single rooms – can preserve the rights and dignity of all. While it would be ideal to offer every pupil these options, building design and economies may mean that this remains an aspiration.

Best practice for females is to have single sex spaces.
This is for safety, dignity & privacy

Individual mixed sex toilets & changing cubicles are increasingly shown in other circumstances such as swimming pools & work places to compromise girls & women's safety, dignity & privacy.

Just to reinforce what @LangCleg said, the full piece is 3500 words so she did only report a small excerpt.

Claire Graham' s talk is excellent and I used it when I researched my piece. She compared the TT Guide with Allsorts; I decided to focus on the transgender toolkit. It's similar to Allsorts but it had been in the news because councils were "reviewing" it. So they should. Safeguarding is safeguarding and it applies just the same when trans-identified children are involved.

I hope that the piece may be moved in front of the paywall. If that happens I will link to it.

Well done Debbie getting that in TES, it will be taken seriously having been posted there and by a transwoman!

Worth also being aware of this recent pitch article aimed at school governors & written by Stonewall representative:

Guest post: How can governors support LGBT inclusivity in schools?

Sidonie Bertrand-Shelton, Head of Education Programmes at Stonewall, outlines the questions governors should be asking to make sure schools are LGBT inclusive – and why inclusivity in schools is vital.

(extract)
"While there is a clear need for LGBT inclusive education and a legal responsibility for all schools as well, what questions should you be asking as governors?

Do you receive bullying incident reports which record homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying incidents as well? If not, why not?
Do the school policies use the right terminology when talking about equality for LGBT people and tackling HBT bullying and language?
Are the administrative systems and processes inclusive of different families (including LGBT families and carers) and of different children and young people? How do you know?
How many of the children and young people in your school identify as trans or non-binary?
How do you hear and act on student or pupil voice from your school? What about staff voice, and your LGBT members of staff?
Do school staff, parent and carer surveys include questions to better understand challenges on embedding LGBT-inclusion?
Is there a staff lead for inclusion that includes LGBT in their job description?
Do you feel confident answering a question from Ofsted on your LGBT-inclusion work in school?
Interested to find out more? There are a few ways to get involved in our network of schools:

Send one of your teachers on our CPD accredited Train the Trainer programme for schools. They will receive the skills, tools and confidence to train their colleagues on LGBT inclusion, and your school will become a Stonewall School Champion.
Once a Stonewall School Champion, you’ll be able to benchmark your school according to our Bronze, Silver and Gold award criteria and receive a certificate. (continues)

www.governorsforschools.org.uk/blog/guest-post-how-can-governors-support-lgbt-inclusivity-in-schools/

Current thread:

OP Enterthewolves wrote:
"Trans School Toolkit - brilliant assessment

Helen from Transgendertrend has done a brilliant assessment of the Allsort’s Trans School Toolkit (the one they says girls who don’t want to share changing rooms with boys should be educated...). It is the Toolkit that has formed the basis of many versions all over the country.

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CRIA-Allsorts-Toolkit.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0OtpDIim-uh7VsbmNELZi3p0xRmsSbIBz0BcukENgoIMP1kop1uxUrjX4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582327-Trans-School-Toolkit-brilliant-assessment