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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Debbie Hayton in the TES

109 replies

NeurotrashWarrior · 10/05/2019 11:15

https://twitter.com/debbiehayton/status/1126712166466244610?s=21

I can't access it as not a subscriber but thanks Debbie for promoting trans gender trend's pack.

Getting this into the TES is very much needed.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 16:09

Pah ha ha!

I know which news paper I'd trust!

Yes weird isn't it Debbie?

Debbie Hayton in the TES
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HandsOffMyRights · 13/05/2019 16:08

I'm a well meaning person.
I stumbled on TT website many times today...

Debbie Hayton in the TES
DebbieInBirmingham · 13/05/2019 16:06

The reaction to two lines in the piece is astonishing.

  1. "In my view, it is the Transgender Trend guide that is most consistent with the Technical Guidance for Schools in England (13) issued by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) when it considered the needs of trans girls." - I then quote the EHRC guidance as evidence. “A suitable alternative [to the changing room designated for their own sex] might be to allow the [trans] pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.”
  1. "In short, school leaders who wish to be fully informed and stay within the law and best practice may wish to consider the Transgender Trend guide when formulating local policy." I would have thought that to be fully informed, a teacher would read as widely as possible.

Meanwhile this one has been ignored.
"It should be noted that we all have a sex and this is defined by our biology. The female sex typically has the capacity to produce gametes (reproductive cells) called ova or eggs, while the male sex typically produces smaller, usually motile, gametes called sperm. There are only two types of gamete and therefore sex is binary."

I do wonder how much of the reaction has come from people who have not read the piece.

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 16:01

Finger slippage!

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Genderfreelass · 13/05/2019 16:00

Oops I just clicked the top result and it just so happened to be TT.

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 16:00

*Unquestioning affirmation is - in my view - a disaster not only for girls but also trans-identified children.i

Mine too. Thanks again Thanks

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KatvonHostileExtremist · 13/05/2019 15:56

Clicking is fun.

Clicky click click

DebbieInBirmingham · 13/05/2019 15:54

Thanks for the comments. I'm pleased that people are reading my piece and finding it helpful. I am writing as a teacher from a teacher's perspective so it doesn't cover everything. However, I hope I made the distinction between sex and gender clearly, and developed the crucial dilemma between affirmation and safeguarding. That - incidently - was inspired by Claire Graham and her superb talk that she gave last year. I have learned so much from Claire and I value her wisdom.

Thanks for noticing the digs that I get from some of my fellow trans people, @NeurotrashWarrior Sadly, I'm used to it. I sense so much fear behind their comments. But when they have not been used to challenge (or engaging with the challenge), my arguments may seem threatening to them.

But that is an aside. I wrote the piece because I am worried about the direction of policy. Unquestioning affirmation is - in my view - a disaster not only for girls but also trans-identified children.

JackyHolyoake · 13/05/2019 15:52

I can sit and link to www.transgendertrend.com/ all day and am happy so to do.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 13/05/2019 15:50

Star columnist !!!!! Hahahahahahaha.........

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 15:48

TT are top result.

Then pink news on flounce.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/05/11/education-magazine-tes-loses-star-columnist-transphobia-row/

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NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 15:46
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HandsOffMyRights · 13/05/2019 15:43

TRAs warning others on Twitter not to click on TransgenderTrend's website (in case educators and parents find out the truth?) so that it doesn't rise through the Google rankings.

Cue brilliant thread from GCs accidentally clicking TT.

Do not, under any circumstances, visit TT via Google. Repeat, do not visit....

twitter.com/ChiefBrody19/status/1127250558090469377?s=20

KatvonHostileExtremist · 13/05/2019 15:28

It amazes me time and time again the speed at which TT type advice changed from the "sensible view" to "evil"

STOP just STOP

I don't think TES would have posted without Debbie. Everybody is terrified of allegations of transphobia.

I guess for me my huge interest and worry in this matter stems principally from the fear children are being treated incorrectly. The news from the Tavistock of pressure from the TRAs backs that up.

This is part of the fightback. We can build on it with head teachers.

And where the hell is that enquiry Penny Mordent Angry

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 15:27

I cannot fathom how a trans person is actually being transphobic.

I notice Hayton is getting digs from TRAs on twitter. Sorry Debbie.

Personally I feel this is a remarkably important piece in the TES, plus forced Devon to flounce which is excellent as she's been touting ridiculous ideology stuff there for some time.

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 13/05/2019 15:21

Those who have issues with TT can never seem to point out even one example of this horrid transphobia, even though apparently its ALL transphobic so one quote should be easy?

Would love to know where they suggest 'conversion therapy'.

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 14:39

I'd suggest buying a copy of the article. I'll be writing in to thank them for highlighting the important sex based safeguarding issues. I hope others do too.

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BeUpStanding · 13/05/2019 14:21

Debbie appears to always do what's best for Debbie... If something proves to be helpful to anyone else that's a happy coincidence.

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/05/2019 13:50

This is the lawyer referenced in the article, popping here in case relevant.

www.vwv.co.uk/lawyers/yvonne-spencer

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plattercake · 12/05/2019 21:06

Thank you Neurotrash for the additional details. I'm still hoping to find out more.

I can't easily get hold of a copy of TES and its not really in my budget (no, I don't buy a coffee every day or even once a week!) so in the meantime, I hope that Debbie might come back to the thread and give some more details.

I agree completely with having and allowing for differences of opinion, I'm wanting to work out truly where the similarities/differences are. I don't use Twitter/Facebook so FWR is it for me.

DuMondeB · 12/05/2019 16:03

This is the kind of thing I was referring to, I mean - I don’t think referring to a transwomen as male is transphobic, but transactivists claim it is.

Dismissing Debbie’s opinion without noting that Debbie is transsexual and a qualified teacher is definitely disingenuous however you look at it, and the way it is phrased smacks of bullying.

At least when Mumsnetters have questions (even uncomfortably forthright ones!) we address them directly to Debbie.

Excellent, re: writing in Neurotrash

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/05/2019 15:59

I actually couldn't believe that one, had to read it several times and put it through the cognitive dissonance filter.

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KatvonHostileExtremist · 12/05/2019 15:57

Oh My God! I missed that....

Wow.

GC person would be kicked off twitter for that!

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/05/2019 15:52

Kat

Wtf is this tweet?! Isn't that transphobic?!

Debbie Hayton in the TES
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NeurotrashWarrior · 12/05/2019 15:48

Now, any feminist subscribers up for writing a letter to the editor, thanking them for publishing Debbie’s piece and clarifying a more GC feminist take?

Yep I will. Will also take this with me to my safeguarding training update soon.

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