Does anyone worry about being sacked over Trans debate?

NHS. Mandatory training is on line so no chance to challenge. Its a tick the right boxes and keep your mouth shut situation.

Yes I worry. My employer is woke, they have an LGBT network for employees, which I'm pretty sure only came about because of the T, it's a recent invention. I just have to keep quiet and not share my views.

ArgyMargy, you're being very offensive and misogynist.

I'll repeat my question: why does single-sex provision exist in the first place?
Work that out, and you have the answer to why some women don't want to share loos and dressing rooms with male colleagues or random men.

Are you saying that you can never be in a room with a transgender person without being "creeped out"?

Some people; let's face it - usually men - give you the creeps. And it is a fact that for some men cross dressing and trying force their way into women's spaces is a fetish. Anyone with any sensitivity is aware of this and it is a disturbing and uncomfortable experience.

If cross dressing men and trans women want to use the toilet - then personally I think it best that they campaign for third spaces. That way everyone gets to feel safe, comfortable, and to retain their dignity.

If someone wants to force themselves into a space in which they are not welcome - that has to be something of an alarm signal, don't you agree?

I don't worry so much about being fired, I worry about it making for a social problem. I work for a church, mostly with kids, and there are plenty of GC people and plenty who aren't. There is actually a slightly (in)famous trans advocate and her FtM child.

I think a few people suspect I am GC because it's come up from time to time in a discussion, but you don't ever know who you can talk to about things. So, it tends not to be discussed, or - only by people like the advocate who assumes everyone is in agreement.

I find it a bit pathetic really

Such lack of empathy and listening skills are noted. Don't fire off questions if you are not prepared to listen to the responses. and if you aren't able or prepared to do that, then that will tell everyone all they need to know why unsympathetic men are not welcome in ladies' loos.

I find it a bit pathetic really, To be intimidated purely by being in the presence of someone else is ridiculous

Do you realise how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Yup getting banned for that

Toilets don't bother me Argy (though I, unlike you it would seem, do accept that other women may not see it this way). However, this issue is not just about toilets.

My local university's pool (open to the public at weekends) however, has open-plan, single sex changing rooms, no cubicles, no curtains. Would I want to see a person of indeterminate gender with their penis hanging out, even if they were changing into a tasteful one-piece and intending to tuck? No, I would not. Likewise, were I to go for a cervical smear expecting a female nurse and be confronted with someone who merely identified as female, I would not be happy about this. If I booked a sleeper berth, and found myself sharing with a be-penised individual, regardless of how that individual identified, I would not feel able to sleep (and that despite having shared mixed sex dorms in mountain huts - the one-on-one nature of a two berth sleeper would make me feel much more vulnerable).

You may be fine with all these situations, and if so, good on you, crack on and live your life how you choose. I however am not, and my boundaries and desire for single sex spaces where appropriate are every bit as important as your desire to signal that you don't give a shit, or (some) trans-identifying individual's desire to force the rest of the world to treat them as the sex they would like to be in all and every conceivable set of circumstances.

ArgyMargy

Did you not read isabelle's reply to your question? She said:

He is intimidating. He stands too close. He is also a male with a fetish and a history of domestic violence.

This is a violent man with a fetish. Nothing to do with being transgender.

Do you think violent men with fetishes should be allowed in women's spaces?

I find it a bit pathetic really. To be intimidated purely by being in the presence of someone else is ridiculous. Whatever their sex/gender. Are you saying that you can never be in a room with a transgender person without being "creeped out"? The fact that it's a toilet is irrelevant - women's toilets always have cubicles so I really don't understand the issue. Is it so difficult to wash your hands in the presence of a transgender person?

Slug ❤️

Absolutely. Very large public sector.

I'm not far off retirement though, so would kick up one hell of a fuss if necessary, although I've not been publicly GC thus far.

I am also in a very woke organisation (civil service)

However we have one or two mtf in the office, and general feeling/discussion is if they want to be called susan and come to work in a dress then that is entirely their choice. However it does not make them female.

That may not translate to public speech or social media- i have a feeling the top management want to be seen as woke and may take it further if word got to them.

I have a mate in a job with strict uniform policy- Only grumbling they have is when trans colleagues aren’t pulled up when they flout uniform rules, make up is supposed to be minimal and hair neutral and tied back. Some apparently turn up with a full face and professional blow dries.

Fortunately, I'm no longer in paid employment and so pretty much my own person.

If you are fearful of talking to your colleagues because they might snitch on you, it must be awful. These really are Orwellian times - where the 'party' has its spies everywhere.

This is just the tip of a huge iceberg ....if so many women here know we can't talk about our concerns at work, there must be millions more that this is affecting. We must take this to the unions, where there are still some, especially in the public services. I no longer have to put up with this shit, but know that if women stand together we can change attitudes. So many are silenced it is certainly a struggle. Admiration for those of you dealing with this on a daily basis.

*@isabellerossignol sorry to be ignorant but what do you think would happen in the toilets if you were in there at the same time as your transgender colleague?8

If you instinctively feel someone is a creep, and they make your skin crawl - you don't want to put yourself in a small enclosed space with them. Whether or not they " did" anything is not the point. It is the psychic discomfort that matters.

I also work in Higher Education, but I'm in one of the very WOKE universities. I worry about my job. This does not, however, stop me from putting Women=Adult Human Female stickers in the women's toilets They do tend to get ripped down fairly quickly though.

I'm a contractor and not dependent on a single employer or sector so I'm not worried personally, but I am very, very concerned for other women and will give what I can to help anyone who loses their job unfairly.
And even in this thread women are being asked to explain why they don't want males in single-sex spaces in the workplace. Does it really need explaining? Why does single-sex provision exist in the first place?

mrsfogi
If I got sacked of this I would no longer be constrained and I would dedicate the time and energy that I put into my job into the GC movement
Thats a great point actually. I hadnt looked at it like that! On the one hand I am worried as I work in a very woke college and have said several gc things to my team colleagues although not to managers. Managed to swerve the LGBTS training twice now. On the other hand I intend to retire in a couple of years so may yet go out in a blaze of glory!

sorry to be ignorant but what do you think would happen in the toilets if you were in there at the same time as your transgender colleague?

ArgyMargy What do you think would happen in the toilets if you were in there at the same time as a male colleague? How is a man who identifies as a woman different from any other man? Why should a man who identifies as a woman be allowed in the women's toilets if other men are excluded? What do you think would happen if a man who identifies as a woman was told they had to use the male toilets?

@isabellerossignol sorry to be ignorant but what do you think would happen in the toilets if you were in there at the same time as your transgender colleague?

He is intimidating. He stands too close. He is also a male with a fetish and a history of domestic violence. He is not the person he pretends to be. He won't touch me, he's not stupid. But he doesn't have to touch me to intimidate me. And he knows that. As do all men.