No gym for me

You are off the chart sexist, so that's really calling the kettle black. And I would say exactly the same to a man or anyone - no one is interested in perving on you in the changing rooms. That's not the real world.

Probably not. I still don't want to have a naked penis near me when I am in a changing room. And I am very concerned about men perving on young girls. I have two granddaughters.

If you truly thing "this doesn't happen" then please google those words. Go on, I dare you.

And then google "kiwi farms" and "Jessica Yaniv." Go on, I dare you.

Xeno, my first and immediate reaction to the idea of being near a transman is curiosity and sympathy (I wouldn't expect them to satisfy the first, obvs). Not a hint of fear at all.

verbeena Veronica - sterling job of ignoring replies and pushing your " stop panicking about rape women" line. 🙄

Yawn, another TRA trying to tell women the proper course of action. Dont worry it will never happen. Sorry mate, we've seen your tactics many times over.

Trans people are completely ordinary. They are not rapists

Exactly. So a proportion of the male ones will be predators, just like all the other males

Which is why I suspect many (if not most of us) would be happy to change in a space with a transman. We aren’t trans exclusionary, we don’t ‘hate‘ transpeople. TERF is a red herring. It’s just that there’s a really, really easy way to segregate the population into broad categories:

‘generally taller, stronger, and statistically greater chance at a population level that they will sexually assault‘

and

‘generally smaller, weaker, statistically very unlikely to commit a sexual assault, legally not possible for these people to rape‘

Tell me why it makes complete sense to alter the definitions to allow the first group free, unsupervised access to the second group.

JamB4cream I was guessing it wasn't practical in this case to close the whole place for the school visits and this is a very strong argument against, more than myself going swimming which is unisex 'village' setup. Its actually bad enough school groups are sharing said spaces with unknown adults.

But yes, “it will never happen”. Except for you know, it already does.

scotsheather

Small pools usually close to the public if a school is in for safeguarding reasons. In the circumstances that would avoid any situation JamB4cream highlighted, even if it was kept single sex tbh.

Nope...the gym I saw this in has male& female changing rooms for both gym, pool & classes so even if they had closed the pool (which i dont think they have) adult gym and class users are still changing with school swimming. As far as I can see there are NO boundaries to stop an adult male identifying truthfully or maliciously as a female and changing with primary girls.

I'm sure this situation isn't unique and will be happening up and down the country. I can't see that TRA have any solutions to keeping malicious males out of female spaces other than "I doesn't happen, It won't happen, shut up women, #nodebate"

How about I also just leave this here.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms

Of 134 complaints over 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 were in single-sex changing areas.*

When I or any other female I know talks about genitals the word "waving" has never ever been used. Therefore it suggests to me anyone using the word "waving" is more used to male genitalia that can in fact wave around, therefore I would assume that person to have a male body.

My brother isn’t a rapist either but we don’t change in front of each other. Ditto my male friends. It’s not just about safety, it’s about privacy, dignity and comfort. Which women are entitled to.

Entertaining when someone just totally ignores any mention of Karen White, JY who specifically asks about how to approach girls about helping them with tampon insertion, that American man that recently assaulted someone in a women’s washroom and said “how do you know I am not a woman”, the recent assault of a 10-year old, the fact that the majority of imprisoned trans women have a history of sexual assault against women (and many trans only after being imprisoned) but yeah “my trans friends are all lovely so it doesn’t happen”.

no one is interested in perving on you in the changing rooms.

Wasn't it Korea where the women were marching for better laws to prosecute men who sneaked in cameras into changing rooms and toilets? Where this was epidemic? No one interested, right? Then why was that happening?

And what will happen when men have unlimited access to shared changing rooms and toilets and it is even easier to creep camera's in? More selfies posted online? Which btw women hardly ever do?

Trans people are completely ordinary. They are not rapists

Exactly. So a proportion of the male ones will be predators, just like all the other males.

That should read “falsely claim to be TW”.

“Trans people are not rapists”.

Not all of them, no. Not even most of them. But demonstrably some of them are. Some of them have been named in this thread. Have been convicted of it.

And since we don't know which ones are going to turn out to be, or which men are going to falsely claim to be in order to access women’s spaces much more easily than they’ve hitherto been able to, then given the impact of getting it wrong, the impact of the damage that will (not could) be done to the women and girls who fall prey to these predators, the only safe and right thing to do is to continue what we have been doing: keep adult penises out of women’s spaces.

Yes, the nonsense idea that rapists are now putting on wigs to attack women.

You’re right. They don’t have to put on wigs. They can just say they are women. It’s “transphobic” for you to claim trans people would wear wigs. Sorry, but you are showing how out of touch of where trans “rights” have gone. It is just making you look a little silly, to be honest.

Even if they were the nicest most nom pervy people on the women dont want to see penises in a room where everyone's supposed to have a female body.

It's that simple.

We are allowed to say no to the penis. Even if that penis is married to us or best friends with us btw

no one is interested in perving on you in the changing rooms.

How pathetically naive. Clueless. I actually envy you living in such blissful ignorance.

More fantasy.

You are off the chart sexist, so that's really calling the kettle black. And I would say exactly the same to a man or anyone - no one is interested in perving on you in the changing rooms. That's not the real world.